Upgrading audio, opinions welcome

[inconspicuous]

Re: Upgrading audio, opinions welcome

I usually take the incremental approach. While I fully recognize the wisdom of the earlier comments urging you not to cheap out on one component and having that weak link mess up the A/V quality, when I upgrade I prefer to concentrate my spending on the best single component I can justify with my budget. Otherwise you're compromising on all the items in your system, and next year you'll be wanting to upgrade at least one of them again. Of course, sometimes you can get more than one component at very good quality, but I'd make sure you concentrate on getting everything you want in at least one component, even if it means living for a year with speakers, for example, that don't do the receiver justice. It'll still be an improvement, and overall the better components will be "keepers" for a lot longer.

agreed, especially with speakers, since they last longer than anything else in the system.

[elwaylite]

Re: Upgrading audio, opinions welcome

Sweet, CS is always good.

[Hagen]

Re: Upgrading audio, opinions welcome

The SVS subs are really good.

And so is their customer service - when we got our sub delivered, it had been somewhat mishandled during transport. The result was that the magnet wasn't attached to the speaker anymore. One call later and a new sub was on the way... We also managed to destroy one of the speakers when we moved to our new office, again one call later and replacement parts were on the way.

I'd say go for SVS...

[elwaylite]

Re: Upgrading audio, opinions welcome

I agree.

One of my issues with the system was sound lately, and I think it was the sucky center. Before I bought my new tv in april, I was using a larger and more expensive Polk center.After the tv, I had to buy a smaller cheaper one because of space, which Ive been unhappy with.

After some thinking last night, I found a way to use the better Polk center then reran the Onkyo calibration tool. Sounds MUCH better, now my sub just sucks. Im torn now whether to buy a $700 sub at BBuy or get an SVS. If I opt to buy the sub somewhere else, I guess Ill buy some DT 1000 series (L/C/R) from BBuy.

[MaxH]

Re: Upgrading audio, opinions welcome

I usually take the incremental approach. While I fully recognize the wisdom of the earlier comments urging you not to cheap out on one component and having that weak link mess up the A/V quality, when I upgrade I prefer to concentrate my spending on the best single component I can justify with my budget. Otherwise you're compromising on all the items in your system, and next year you'll be wanting to upgrade at least one of them again. Of course, sometimes you can get more than one component at very good quality, but I'd make sure you concentrate on getting everything you want in at least one component, even if it means living for a year with speakers, for example, that don't do the receiver justice. It'll still be an improvement, and overall the better components will be "keepers" for a lot longer.

[elwaylite]

Re: Upgrading audio, opinions welcome

Thats whats killing me now, where to start. I brought my better Polk center down from the attic(really to big for my tv stand) and hooked it up today, Sounds worlds diff, most of my problem was the little center I went to.

Honestly, Im pretty happy with the sound, so the sub might be the first buy.

[inconspicuous]

Re: Upgrading audio, opinions welcome

Slightly better DAC can be a big deal.

Increase power out can be a big deal.

The power's what's really noticeable, imo. I've spent plenty of time listening to each, & I've been pretty surprised as to the amount of difference for such a [seemingly] small change in the actual rating (though you have to consider that it is more than a 10% jump).

I don't mean to say that the 1909's terrible--I just think that the improvement going to the 23 is a lot more than the $200 difference would suggest (unlike, as I mentioned, the $350 one between the 2309 & 2809. You've got 4 speakers to buy & your current receiver is alright. I'd wait 'til you've got everything else and either something in the technology changes dramatically or you want to spend a good chunk of change on a big upgrade.

[NA9D]

Re: Upgrading audio, opinions welcome

My only comment is that if you are going to invest the money in a new receiver, make sure you are getting what you really want and something that is suitable for the foreseeable future and will fit your future needs. I wish that a year ago, I'd followed my gut and bought the 3808. For another $300 I could have had a better system with 4 HMDI inputs instead of 3, full networking capability, etc.. But since I've spent $1000 or so on the 2808, I'm now stuck with my investment for the foreseeable future. It's better to wait a little longer to get the couple hundred bucks for the next step up than buy now and be sorry later.

[elwaylite]

Re: Upgrading audio, opinions welcome

Slightly better DAC can be a big deal.

Increase power out can be a big deal.

But I think the biggest desire to go with the more expensive receiver is that 4th HDMI input. My Denon 2808 only has 3. I wish it had a fourth. With the number of HDMI devices proliferating, it should be a major consideration. What if you decide in 4 months to get that TivoHD. It has HDMI output but now your receiver you just bought only has 3 inputs and they are all used. Now you have to buy an HDMI switch and integrate that into your system.

It might seem like just an input but it could be a big deal. Think for the future...

I dont disagree, its just when you set a budget for a project, you have to pick and choose. By all accounts, the 1909 is a great rcvr for me.

After doing a little more weighing, replacing the L/C/F with the Def Tech 1000 series is first order of business.

My Bday is in March, so ill plan to spend $400-$600 on a sub, prob a Klipsch.

Ill leave the rcvr for my black friday purchase next year, that way I can spend $800-1000 and get a really good Denon.

Thanks all for the input.

[NA9D]

Re: Upgrading audio, opinions welcome

Slightly better DAC can be a big deal.

Increase power out can be a big deal.

But I think the biggest desire to go with the more expensive receiver is that 4th HDMI input. My Denon 2808 only has 3. I wish it had a fourth. With the number of HDMI devices proliferating, it should be a major consideration. What if you decide in 4 months to get that TivoHD. It has HDMI output but now your receiver you just bought only has 3 inputs and they are all used. Now you have to buy an HDMI switch and integrate that into your system.

It might seem like just an input but it could be a big deal. Think for the future...

[elwaylite]

Re: Upgrading audio, opinions welcome

There's a significant difference even between the 1909 & 2309 on a DefTech ProCinema 1000 package.

I understand your point, but at this level, these are proportionally huge differences, and there's nothing that's operating at its fullest potential (except maybe the HDMI cables), so an improvement in any single piece of equipment will have a noticeable impact.

From what Ive read on AVS, the diff between a 1909 and a 2309 is a lot less than you are making it out to be, at least for features that matter to me.

I think a 1909 will be a great fit for me. All I need is a good rcvr with 1080p passthru and 3 HDmi inputs. I dont need multizone, upconversion or any of that hooey. Sometimes I think you do let the features it comes with skew your view. IMHO, I should buy a good receiver that has only the features I need.

Now that you guys got me looking at the 1909, I have to decide again on what to buy first




http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1050097

Q. I noticed that the AVR 2309ci/889 is only a couple hundred more. Is it worth it to step up to the higher model?

A. The primary benefit of the 2309/889 vs the 1909/789 is the addition of the fourth HDMI input.

Both 1909/789 and 2309/889 have identical audio decoding capability, identical video processing capability, identical multizone functionality, and identical Audyssey feature sets.

This is a list of features you gain stepping up from 1909/789 to 2309/889:

1. 2 lbs heavier, and slightly more power (100Wx7 instead of 90Wx7)
2. A fourth rear HDMI input
3. A fourth rear S-video input
4. S-video and optical audio inputs on front auxilliary input
5. Dedicated phono input with pre-amp stage
6. Component video bandwidth is rated at 100MHz (up from 60MHz on 1909/789)
7. Slightly better DAC
8. Detachable power cord
9. RS232 and 12V Trigger ports (2309ci only)

Only you can decide if these features are "worth it", please do not ask

[inconspicuous]

Re: Upgrading audio, opinions welcome

...the one thing to add is that you will have to spend more on every piece of equipment if you want to get more quality. E.g. I doubt that you hear a difference between a setup using the Denon 2309 and the 5808 using the SVS SBS-01 series speakers.

There's a significant difference even between the 1909 & 2309 on a DefTech ProCinema 1000 package.

I understand your point, but at this level, these are proportionally huge differences, and there's nothing that's operating at its fullest potential (except maybe the HDMI cables), so an improvement in any single piece of equipment will have a noticeable impact.

[Hagen]

Re: Upgrading audio, opinions welcome

...the one thing to add is that you will have to spend more on every piece of equipment if you want to get more quality. E.g. I doubt that you hear a difference between a setup using the Denon 2309 and the 5808 using the SVS SBS-01 series speakers.

Even better speakers probably won't make a big difference unless you spend some money on more "sound design" in you living room/home theater. E.g. in my case my living room is my "home theater" and my living room is wide open with a vaulted ceiling. ...so even a set of reference speakers with the 5808 will not sound all that great in my environment.

On the other hand if you have a separate home theater room and are willing to spend some money on "passive acoustic" elements (like wall pannels and stuff like that) plus if you can put theater seating in it and position the seats properly, then yes it makes sense to buy a pre-amp for a couple grand plus power amps for each speaker plus some nice reference speakers... ...and yes, I wish I had the space and money to do that.

[inconspicuous]

Re: Upgrading audio, opinions welcome

It's very easy to get caught up in features with the newer receivers, but keep in mind that they're still amplifiers & D/A converters. Even if you never go beyond 5.1 & two HDMI devices & never add speakers in another room, a $2,000 receiver is still going to sound a lot better than, say, a Yamaha 663 (the reigning king of the 'I have all the features for cheap!' struggle).

That said, the 2309 is a good piece of equipment. It's a huge upgrade over the 1909, & unless you just can't live without a folding faceplate, the 2809's slight differences aren't enough to justify that next leap in pricing.

[Hagen]

Re: Upgrading audio, opinions welcome

I was looking at the denon 2309 for my next upgrade. It seems to do everything that I would need - dual zone/dual input audio, 7.1, 4 hdmi inputs, video upscaling. It also comes with some fancy audio processing, that I guess you need to do these days to sell a recvr in that market... Amazon has it for less then $800.

For speakers I would look at the SVS SBS-01 system. We have that in our demo room here and the sound is pretty good... ...and it got really good reviews as well.

Hagen.