Apple TV take 2: 100 hd titles today

[bqmeister]

Re: Apple TV take 2: 100 hd titles today

Of course IF Apples solves all of the problems and has a perfect solution, it would, by definition, be perfect and win. My point was that with the evidence available, it looks like Apple is running into exactly the same licensing issues as Vudu, which makes me believe that your "guess" that they will do MUCH better isn't founded in anything other than blind hope. By the way, I hope someone does eventually break through and give us everything we want.

Here's the thing though.
Apple and vudu have very similar restrictions.
Apple and vudu have very similar deals with content providers. Apple may start with a library of 1000 movies but if they're mostly newer releases, Apple will be real close to vudu with a 'good' library. 5000 or 10000 or 1 millions movies doesn't matter if you don't have what consumers want.

Give a slight nod to vudu on content if you want, even though apple will have more HD.

But Apple is priced significantly lower and the HD rentals are lower. AppleTV also has significantly more bang for the buck (more features built in besides just watching movies).


Content is king. But people won't buy it if it's overpriced (vudu is). Apple's price is significantly closer to where it needs to be.

[NA9D]

Re: Apple TV take 2: 100 hd titles today

You can't compare the prices when the storage space is not the same! If you want to purchase movies, you'll store precious few on the $229 AppleTV!

Your other comments are valid, but at least compare the $329 model at its closer to what the Vudu offers for storage. People don't just rent.

[NA9D]

Re: Apple TV take 2: 100 hd titles today

I guess I am a glass is half full not half empty guy. Oh, and my "guess" is not founded on blind hope but:

- Jobs doesn't usually make marketing mistakes as big as neglecting to mention there will be gaping holes in what movies can be rented.

- Apple has a track record of getting studios on board with pricing/availability where others have failed (see iTunes store and compare it with what Real, Creative, and all the rest attempted at and failed with before).

- I don't think Vudu has the contacs or the experience in the movie industry that Jobs has access to by his relationship with Walt Disney

- Apple has distribution channels that were never open to Vudu, and money, that can open more doors during negotiations.

I could go on, but I am hungry and I skipped lunch watching the keynote and responding here. Off to vendoland it is!!!

This made me laugh. You have no concept of who the people in management at Vudu are and the experience with Hollywood they bring. Several of the Sr. management came from places like Tivo.

And Apple is not so perfect with marketing either. Every hear of the G4 Cube? Or how about the fact that the AppleTV has been a flop for the past year? Or did you ever hear of NBC? Hmm...Try to find NBC shows on iTunes. Apple screwed that one up. And now recording studios are putting out DRM free content. But except for one studio, it isn't on iTunes...

So Apple's track record is far from perfect.

[redwein]

Re: Apple TV take 2: 100 hd titles today

But Apple is priced significantly lower and the HD rentals are lower. AppleTV also has significantly more bang for the buck (more features built in besides just watching movies).

Pricing is a variable thing and competition has a tendency to cause companies to lower prices when it heats up. I'll defer to Vudu to price things according to how their business is running and what the competition is doing. There is too much we don't know to tell them what pricing model to use.

[jonathon]

Re: Apple TV take 2: 100 hd titles today

As the iTunes/Apple TV setup allows portability of content (e.g. can be played on iPhone, ipod and computer) I think that's a great advantage over Vudu. Also, the Apple TV plays video podcasts, photo streams and YouTube. The future use of the Vudu box hangs in the balance now.

[Guy Gadois]

Re: Apple TV take 2: 100 hd titles today

My $.02

Competition in this space is great. I want Vudu to win but at this point I would think that Apple may have the upper hand.

* I think Apple has more clout then Vudu does to get new content. Vudu is the winner right now but Apple is just starting their product.

* The cost - I think the Apple comes with a wireless connection built-in. This is nice and I was surprised Vudu didn't have.

* I LOVE the idea of viewing my photos and playing music and watching YouTube on my TV.

It is too early to say who the winner is but Vudu is going to have a hard time against such a huge gorilla as Apple.

Guy

[bqmeister]

Re: Apple TV take 2: 100 hd titles today

granted, apple screwed up with NBC.
But Isn't the entire itunes store available with the appletv?

If we're talking content, doesn't apple have more than 5000 titles in the entire store?

There are a significant amount of TV Shows available.
Apple won't lose the content war.

And I don't want to pay $170 more for a hard drive I don't need, when I have the storage on my server.
Vudu should offer a $150 vudu with an 80gig drive. The cost should be lower than apple to offset the lack of functionality as compared to appletv.

[NA9D]

Re: Apple TV take 2: 100 hd titles today

I've argued for a $199 price point since before the Vudu launched (too bad you can't see that, bqmesiter, on the beta forums) and I've argued for portability of content.

Maybe Apple's doing this will shake loose the same capability with Vudu.

And who knows what Vudu 2.0 will bring...

[bqmeister]

Does vudu really win as far as content is concerned?

Is vudu really Content King?

TV shows 1 day after they air? Itunes music library. Picture library. Flickr libraries. Movies on your PC. etc.

I'm trying my best not to buy one now!

[NA9D]

Re: Does vudu really win as far as content is concerned?

Is vudu really Content King?

TV shows 1 day after they air? Itunes music library. Picture library. Flickr libraries. Movies on your PC. etc.

I'm trying my best not to buy one now!

Buy one. It's a nice little product - I do like mine. But I think that I like viewing movies on the Vudu better.

One thing that will be interesting is video quality. How will Apple's HD content look compared to Vudu's....

[NA9D]

Re: Apple TV take 2: 100 hd titles today

Something else I just learned about AppleTV's HD content:

ONLY 720p.

Vudu is 1080p/24.

Vudu wins here...

And AppleTV HD isn't instant and the 30 seconds I mentioned earlier may only be for SD content.

Vudu wins here too.

[bqmeister]

Re: Apple TV take 2: 100 hd titles today

I've argued for a $199 price point since before the Vudu launched (too bad you can't see that, bqmesiter, on the beta forums) and I've argued for portability of content.

Maybe Apple's doing this will shake loose the same capability with Vudu.

And who knows what Vudu 2.0 will bring...

I hope you're right about shaking things loose at vudu.

I'll say this - most of what you've hinted at has come true (Can't wait for the HD). My biggest concern is will vudu 2.0 be here soon enough?

I honestly would not be suprised if apple saw a nice little spike in the appleTV sales starting today. (I'm not buying one yet, but I am interested)
Vudu has a nice product. I enjoy it, but I don't know if they'll survive longterm. I don't understand why anyone would choose vudu over apple today. Without more customers vudu loses.

If anyone can think of reasons new customers should choose apple over vudu, I'd be interested to hear them.

[bqmeister]

Re: Apple TV take 2: 100 hd titles today

Something else I just learned about AppleTV's HD content:

ONLY 720p.

Vudu is 1080p/24.

Vudu wins here...

And AppleTV HD isn't instant and the 30 seconds I mentioned earlier may only be for SD content.

Vudu wins here too.

I have so little desire to go 1080p. But you're right, that is a vudu win.
Will that mean apple's file sizes will be significantly smaller?

Vudu requires 4mb connection to stream HD, right? Apple probably is dumbing it down - saying SD will be near instant with a broadband connection (which includes slow DSL). Some customers will probably get instant HD with apple, but apple won't guarantee for all broadband customers because they don't know the speed of every connection.

Even vudu can't do instant streaming to a dsl-lite customer, right?

I don't know if that's a vudu win, or simply the way the companies choose to market their products. If you look at vudu's website, you may decide not to purchase if you have DSL lite. With apple, you still buy the product. Same end-user experience, except apple gets your money and vudu doesn't.
Apple doesn't advertise streaming as heavily as vudu but that doesn't mean it won't be supported for high speed customers.

[bqmeister]

Re: Apple TV take 2: 100 hd titles today

The apple HD movies are available on any itunes capable device, right?
When the HD movies come out, I'll try to find the same title on both vudu and itunes. I'll rent the vudu on the vudu and the itunes one on my HTPC and do a fair comparison.

Granted, my projector is 720p, so I doubt I'll see much difference. More important will be artifacts I think.

[Nded]

Very interesting.....

Interesting footnote on http://www.apple.com/appletv/

1. Dolby Digital 5.1 surround sound is not available with all HD rentals.

The website also indicates that all SD titles are in stereo (see tech specs link below). Could somebody please point me to the Apple Corp. supported discussion forum where customers and non-customers get to whale on Apple over and over again about how this is the end of the world?

When you go a little deeper to http://www.apple.com/appletv/rentals.html you learn that they are very careful to exclude HD instant viewing.

Your movie starts downloading instantly, and, if you choose a standard-definition movie, you can start watching it in seconds.

It's not yet clear how many seconds are required for SD viewing to begin. You can bet NA9D will let us know as soon as his AppleTV gets the 2.0 update. All Vudu owners will be receiving the instant HD update later this month (4MB internet connection of course). It will be interesting to see what weight the independent critics put on truly instant gratification.

Now when you jump on over to the Technical Specs at http://www.apple.com/appletv/specs.html you learn that 720P is as good as it gets. No 1080i output, and don't even think about the truly superior "true to film" 1080p 24fps output. It also looks like SD content (rated at 640x480) is compressed to require 1.5M (or less) internet service. It will be interesting to hear what Jon sees when he watches the same SD title side-by-side on the two platforms.

The one thing I never noticed before was that the Apple TV does not have composite or s-video outputs. That leaves out a fairly significant install base, and don't tell me otherwise, or we wouldn't be seeing our wonderful federal government offering coupons on digital STB's to save the free world.

All things considered, I still think this is good news, as we get to see more pressure on the studios to support the new media.