Difference between VUDU an VUDU XL

[aaronwt]

Re: Difference between VUDU an VUDU XL

Well, that post you quoted from was a year old! I think Aaron has purchased at least one or two more Vudus since then!

Anyhow, the hard drive is NOT user upgradeable.

Yes I have three now. One from Ebay and one from Tweeter a year ago. And then my third one from Best Buy in November.

[aaronwt]

Re: Difference between VUDU an VUDU XL

In case Bobpaule missed discussions on this topic, some form of external storage support is supposed to be added to the box eventually.

Hopefully soon. WIth my main VUDU I always have to wait for a title to drop off the extended viewing offer list before I can rent another one. And I've archived every SD show I can. But it only gives me an option to delete the HD content I've purchased. If I planned on deleting it I wouldn't have purchased it.

[htheater]

Re: Difference between VUDU an VUDU XL

Since this thread was raised from the dead and I didn't see that anyone ever gave an answer, I thought it might be good to do this for anyone that cares.

DISCLAIMER: As I have stated before, I am a Vudu dealer, but I have no inside information or pre-release data! I am not perfect and may have mis-stated something. Please do correct me, but take it easy on me. I also have absolutely ZERO experience with the basic Vudu box but have installed multiple XL and XL2s and own them both at my showroom and my home.

So, here are the differences, along with some editorial comments that are in italics. All pricing is MSRP.

Common characteristics:

ALL boxes can access ALL content at the same speed.

ALL boxes include the same Vudu RF remote and can use the VAC106 IR Kit ($39). The Vudu XL2 already includes this kit in the box.

ALL boxes support the VAC105 Wireless Kit ($99).

The basic Vudu box (VBX-100 - $299) was the first box to the market. It contains a 250GB hard drive that can store approximately 50 SD movies. HD is available ONLY over the HDMI output as Component is limited to 480p. When the HDMI is plugged in, all other outputs are disabled.

The basic Vudu does not support Software Expansion Packs (see below) so it has a limited feature set.

The basic box is currently sold via Best Buy, specialty retailers, custom installers and directly from Vudu. This box has had various promotions including price discounts, package discounts and Vudu Bucks. All of these are aimed at gaining market share/awareness.

The Vudu XL (VBX-1000 - $999) is in the same chassis as the basic Vudu and includes a 1TB hard drive. It can store approximately 500 SD movies. This confuses some as the drive is only 4 times the size yet it stores 10 times as many movies. This is because the hard drive also stores OS data and the first 15 seconds of each movie for buffering and that takes up a substantial amount of space on the 250GB drive.

The Vudu XL series support Software Expansion Packs. The first and currently only one is the XLS1 Pack (no set MSRP) that adds HD over Component (1080i/720p), simultaneous HDMI/Analog Component output and IP Control (NetRemote).

These features were requested by custom installers so the Vudu could be integrated smoothly into existing whole house A/V distribution and home automation systems.

It should be noted that the HDMI output is limited to the same resolution that the Component Video is set too when enabling the simultaneous function.

The Vudu XL2 (VBX-1500 - $1299) is the Vudu XL in a 1U rack mount chassis. It comes with the same 1TB hard drive and includes the VAC106 IR Kit. It also supports the Software Expansion Packs.

The rumor mill. These are Internet rumors, so take them for what they are!

Rumor has it that Vudu will announce multi room support (watch what is on one Vudu box from another in the same house/network) via a Software Expansion Pack. This will be for the XL/XL2 only.

We also hope that they will announce the USB hard drive expansion program at the same time.

Rumor also has it that Vudu will announce new agreements for faster movie availability and even more "Still in Theaters" titles.

We can only hope!

[tamanaco]

Re: Difference between VUDU an VUDU XL

The basic Vudu does not support Software Expansion Packs (see below) so it has a limited feature set.

The Vudu XL series support Software Expansion Packs. The first and currently only one is the XLS1 Pack (no set MSRP) that adds HD over Component (1080i/720p), simultaneous HDMI/Analog Component output and IP Control (NetRemote).

Pardon my ignorance, but are these "Software Expansion Packs" (SEPs) at all related with the Vudu Labs development kit that's supposed to be released some time in the future?... These SEPs sound like plugins that extend the functionality of the Vudu box... Are all future plugins exclusive to the XL series?.

The rumor mill. These are Internet rumors, so take them for what they are!

Rumor has it that Vudu will announce multi room support (watch what is on one Vudu box from another in the same house/network) via a Software Expansion Pack. This will be for the XL/XL2 only.

We also hope that they will announce the USB hard drive expansion program at the same time.

Continuing with the same ignorance,... about two "rumored" additions above... does these "rumors" only apply to the XL line?

Without having to divulge any corporate secrets it would nice to know that my new Vudu box "Chump Series" will get some of these enhancements some time in the not too distant future.

[Nded]

Re: Difference between VUDU an VUDU XL

"Chump Series" - I like it!

[redwein]

Re: Difference between VUDU an VUDU XL

Rumor has it that Vudu will announce multi room support (watch what is on one Vudu box from another in the same house/network) via a Software Expansion Pack. This will be for the XL/XL2 only.

As someone who has 5 of the standard boxes and paid full retail for them, this would tick me off if the multi-room support was available for the XL only. I hope your rumor is only half right.

[bald_]

Re: Difference between VUDU an VUDU XL

...

Rumor also has it that Vudu will announce new agreements for faster movie availability and even more "Still in Theaters" titles.

We can only hope!

This would be ridiculously awesome and give Vudu a clear advantage. As far as I'm concerned, 1080p VOD of movies day and date with theater release is the end game for delivery of movies to the home.

bald

[htheater]

Re: Difference between VUDU an VUDU XL

Pardon my ignorance, but are these "Software Expansion Packs" (SEPs) at all related with the Vudu Labs development kit that's supposed to be released some time in the future?... These SEPs sound like plugins that extend the functionality of the Vudu box... Are all future plugins exclusive to the XL series?.

Again, these are rumors so everything is speculation. First, the only existing SEP (I am going to borrow that from you!) is ONLY available for the XL Series. In the section for the VBX-100, the Vudu Dealer Price Schedule clearly states - **does not accept software expansion packs (such as XLS1)** . This leads me to believe that this applies to future SEPs also.

Vudu Labs and any third party offering that comes from that is completely independent of SEPs. I don't see any reason that these would be exlusive to the XL Series.

Continuing with the same ignorance,... about two "rumored" additions above... does these "rumors" only apply to the XL line?

No ignorance, but I will answer it the same way....this is a RUMOR.

Rumor has it that since it will be an SEP and an enhancement, then it follows that the multi room will not be available on the standard box, but policy can change

I personally feel that the USB expansion hard drive support MUST include the basic box or Vudu will lose face as it has been implied/promised even before the XL was out, so this might be an exception to the "rule".

I am curious as to how they will implement this feature. Will they do like the Dish Network and have a modest fee to enable this? Will you only be able to offload movies to it for storage, but now playback directly from it? Dish claims that playback from a portable drive violates their license agreement, so, you have to load it back to the system drive to view.

Without having to divulge any corporate secrets it would nice to know that my new Vudu box "Chump Series" will get some of these enhancements some time in the not too distant future.

Well, I certainly am not privy to any secrets to divulge even if I wanted to!

"Chump Series" now that is funny! Take a look at how this thread started and many would feel that the XL held that name because a person had to pay $700 more (@ MSRP) JUST for a larger hard drive. Chump!

Then we found out that it also offered some key home automation integration benefits too, but some still don't see the value (other threads and sites). Maybe still a chump?

Now we find out that it MAY also offer future enhancements that won't be available on the entry version and people are upset. Hmmm, maybe I should sell my basic box and purchase an XL series since I want these new features.

Why should Vudu (or any manufacturer) not be allowed to differentiate their higher-end products from their lower-end ones? This is business and it happens across all industries and, I don't see anything wrong with that and, in fact, expect it as a dealer.

[htheater]

Re: Difference between VUDU an VUDU XL

This would be ridiculously awesome and give Vudu a clear advantage. As far as I'm concerned, 1080p VOD of movies day and date with theater release is the end game for delivery of movies to the home.

bald

I agree that this is the future, however, I doubt that this would be a Vudu exclusive.

The way I understand the movie release schedule is that they have multiple Tiers. Here is how it currently is set up.

Tier 1 - Theatrical Release

Tier 2 - Hotels and Airlines

Tier 3 - VOD/PPV Services such as Vudu, Netflix, Amazon, Apple, Satellite and CATV providers

Tier 4 - Premium Channels and/or Broadcast exclusives

Tier 5 - Broadcast Channel general release

Rumor has it that the VODs are all vying for Tier 2 status without the big upfront commitments and guarantees. The Dish Network paid some big bucks to test the waters with their early release 1080p programs. They had Ironman in 1080p at least a month before it was available anywhere else. Same with several other movies.

Rumor has it that they stuck their necks out with some huge numbers guarantees and that they were successful! This is GOOD for ALL VOD services.

[tamanaco]

Re: Difference between VUDU an VUDU XL

Well, I certainly am not privy to any secrets to divulge even if I wanted to!

"Chump Series" now that is funny! Take a look at how this thread started and many would feel that the XL held that name because a person had to pay $700 more (@ MSRP) JUST for a larger hard drive. Chump!

Then we found out that it also offered some key home automation integration benefits too, but some still don't see the value (other threads and sites). Maybe still a chump?

Now we find out that it MAY also offer future enhancements that won't be available on the entry version and people are upset. Hmmm, maybe I should sell my basic box and purchase an XL series since I want these new features.

Why should Vudu (or any manufacturer) not be allowed to differentiate their higher-end products from their lower-end ones? This is business and it happens across all industries and, I don't see anything wrong with that and, in fact, expect it as a dealer.

I knew that you were not privy to any secrets and... yes, I said "Chump Series" and meant it as a joke. Entry or not the Chump Series has a bigger share of the Vudu market. My questions (based on the rumors) did not require exact "true" answers, but speculative responses. I understood them as "rumors " not as factual and at the beginning of your post you also made this clear with a disclaimer... which I also read.

I have a Slimdevices Squeezebox 3 stream music player which I bought for $250 and I'm very happy with it. Slimdevices also makes the Transporter a $2,000 high end player. Both boxes are enhanced via software plugins developed by Slimdevices and by independent developers. Slimdevices does not see a problem having the entry level box (SB3) and the high end box enjoy the functionality enhancements that the software plugins provide. I know that my SB3 does not have the same DAP to reproduce the same audiophile level of sound that the high end box does. But I'm very happy to get all the feature enhancements that are available via the plugins for both boxes. That's what "I think and hope" that the Vudu Labs model is going to be like. If the development toolkit that's rumored to be released is also open source then it'll be even better. So, when I saw that SEPs were already available for XL series and not for the entry series I was a bit curious and wanted to find out a bit more since I did not even know that SEP existed. Hopefully, via Vudu Labs or via other firmware enhancements we will get similar functionality in the entry level box. After all there is an external USB 2.0 port waiting for something to do.

[redwein]

Re: Difference between VUDU an VUDU XL

I'm pretty sure the SEP only on XL thing is a policy that's in place for features that are specifically targetted towards it and not due to physical hardware limitations. I seem to recall in the early days that they made some IP control features available on the standard box but then made it only available on the XL when that became available. Then, I believe, they grandfathered in the standard boxes that already had it. If someone has a clearer memory about that, feel free to correct me.

[RonV]

Re: Difference between VUDU an VUDU XL

You are correct on the IP control. It was, upon request, avaiable on the basic VUDU box. IP control was targeted to the installation pros to integrate the VUDU into complex home automation / theator systems. This became a VUDU XL feature only at a later date.

I'm pretty sure the SEP only on XL thing is a policy that's in place for features that are specifically targetted towards it and not due to physical hardware limitations. I seem to recall in the early days that they made some IP control features available on the standard box but then made it only available on the XL when that became available. Then, I believe, they grandfathered in the standard boxes that already had it. If someone has a clearer memory about that, feel free to correct me.

[NA9D]

Re: Difference between VUDU an VUDU XL

First of all, since the boxes are basically identical except for hard drive, there's no reason why a BX100 couldn't accept a SEP. However, the BX100 has been enhanced multiple ways since its release in Sept 2007. Anyone who's been here that long knows it. Unfortunately, the way Vudu released the XL, it kind of forces them to have features released only for it as there's no hardware differentiation. They should have used a different processor, HMDI 1.3a, etc. for the XL and really made it worth the extra $$$. Now, if the XL dropped to say $600 and was available w/o paying an installer to come integrate it, then I think it makes a lot more sense to spend the extra money to get the extra features.

Now, regarding the Room to Room bit. If Vudu makes that an XL only feature it will be one of the most boneheaded things that they have ever done. This feature request was made by regular users well before the XL came out. On top of that, I know plenty of people who would pay for one XL to be integrated into their home AV system. But I don't know many people who would purchase multiple XLs for multiple integrated systems! I think even the most serious AV buffs probably have just one theatre in their home. So it would seriously limit the feature's usability. I imagine a large number of XL sales come from people who have purchased the BX100 and want the bigger, more integrated box or people buy the XL and then want a second box and buy the BX100.

I could see (but wouldn't like it) something along the lines of the XL being sort of a home hub and being able to stream to any other box. But the BX100s would not be able to stream to each other. That would make sense but still, a feature like room to room streaming should be on all boxes.

A number of people at Vudu came from Tivo. They should look at what Tivo has done with their XL box. First, it's THX certified (I can't believe Vudu's XL is NOT THX certified - I am sure every AV nut with a THX certified system would want this). The Tivo XL has a different remote. The old Series 3 model (before the XL) had faster unit to unit transfer (not sure about the XL). But all Tivos support multi-room viewing.

Anyhow, Vudu will do what Vudu will do. They've been very receptive in the past to user comments and feedback. I hope that is still the case so make your voices known!

[MaxH]

Re: Difference between VUDU an VUDU XL

Why should Vudu (or any manufacturer) not be allowed to differentiate their higher-end products from their lower-end ones? This is business and it happens across all industries and, I don't see anything wrong with that and, in fact, expect it as a dealer.

Well, I don't think anyone is saying they should not be ALLOWED to run their business however they see fit, including into the ground. (Not that I think they're doing that.) But I think that disincentivizing upgrading is a very poor business decision, one that can not only affect new sales, but reduce your reputation among existing customers, who should be your biggest allies and advocates. By differentiating between models in a way that makes it impossible to modularly upgrade or to have certain features on certain models, the customer may want to upgrade but decide not to do so because of the way the options are presented to them.

Sure, there are businesses where packages of options have to be taken or rejected as a whole, but if those options could be added later individually, I think as a rule you'd see higher utilization overall of the options in question. Just because it's done doesn't mean it's being done right.

[redwein]

Re: Difference between VUDU an VUDU XL

Also, before the XL, a big deal was made about how the box would keep improving with new software, features and the like. That impression is kind of the opposite of "dead end" which the standard box would feel like if it didn't support the room to room streaming. I have 5 of them and spent close to $2000 on them. Do you really think I should have to buy 5 new boxes and spend $5000 more to get a feature I already have on my Tivo and given the fact that it was my only option to buy at the time?