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Difference between VUDU an VUDU XL

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    #1

    Difference between VUDU an VUDU XL

    Is the only real difference between the current vudu and the vudu xl the hard drive? The only reason I ask is because the price difference in hard drives between the 250GB HDD and the 1TB drive is only like $250. Which doesn't include bulk discounts, so why the extra $600 price tag?

    Also, you wouldn't happen to know if vudu is considering an upgrade program are you? (ie: pay to get an upgrade to a vudu xl or replace the HDD).
    Tags: None
    #2
    Re: Difference between VUDU an VUDU XL

    The other differences (besides HDD size) will be further documented soon. We'll post them as soon as we know them and have permission. As for the reason for the published price - I believe that lets the dealers who are selling XL's to high end customers have a protected margin. When your putting in a $40K-$50K theater, that's a rounding error. You may or may not be the target customer for the XL. Given the DIY nature of most forum participants, you probably are not, and that's OK.

    Comment

      #3
      Re: Difference between VUDU an VUDU XL

      Originally posted by rstone View Post
      Is the only real difference between the current vudu and the vudu xl the hard drive? The only reason I ask is because the price difference in hard drives between the 250GB HDD and the 1TB drive is only like $250. Which doesn't include bulk discounts, so why the extra $600 price tag?

      Also, you wouldn't happen to know if vudu is considering an upgrade program are you? (ie: pay to get an upgrade to a vudu xl or replace the HDD).
      The VUDU XL is marketed to the professional installer of home theater equipment and not the consumer. Are you looking at the price of a standard TB drive or a media TB drive. The media drives are about 1.5 times more expensive. They are designed to be acoustically quiet and stream content. There was some new HD's announced at CES that brings some of the media streaming capabilities to lower end TB drives by Hitachi.

      VUDU is working on external storage that will allow you to use a standard USB drive for content. So in theory no update needed if you can used external drives.

      Comment

        #4
        Re: Difference between VUDU an VUDU XL

        Originally posted by RonV View Post
        The VUDU XL is marketed to the professional installer of home theater equipment and not the consumer. Are you looking at the price of a standard TB drive or a media TB drive. The media drives are about 1.5 times more expensive. They are designed to be acoustically quiet and stream content. There was some new HD's announced at CES that brings some of the media streaming capabilities to lower end TB drives by Hitachi.

        VUDU is working on external storage that will allow you to use a standard USB drive for content. So in theory no update needed if you can used external drives.
        I know the 250GB drive you guys use is the CinemaStar 7K500 which you can pick up retail for about $90 or so, and your probably using the CinemaStar 7K1000 1TB for the new VUDU XL, which retails for about 340 or so.

        I am aware of the external storage coming, but why not take advantage of the most space you can. With the VUDU XL i'd pick up an additional 750GB that I would not otherwise, and being HD movies are the wave of the future, its not hard to imagine blowning through even a 1TB drive quickly if filled with HD movies.

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          #5
          Re: Difference between VUDU an VUDU XL

          I think the only way one will be able to get a TB box will be through the high end installers/dealers.

          In truth, we don't know yet the full specs of the box. There's a couple things we do know that we can't comment on yet at this time. But they don't offer that much of an advantage over the standard box. What else there is is only known by the folks at Vudu themselves...

          Comment

            #6
            Re: Difference between VUDU an VUDU XL

            Originally posted by Nded View Post
            The other differences (besides HDD size) will be further documented soon. We'll post them as soon as we know them and have permission. As for the reason for the published price - I believe that lets the dealers who are selling XL's to high end customers have a protected margin. When your putting in a $40K-$50K theater, that's a rounding error. You may or may not be the target customer for the XL. Given the DIY nature of most forum participants, you probably are not, and that's OK.
            So what you have to spend 40-50k before your meet the prerequisites to get taken advantage of??

            You know I've probably spent well over 20-30k on theater gear, but even people who have spent an arm and leg on theater gear such as myself, still don't like to get shafted unnecessarily, when its found that the price is nothing more than price gouging. If it is really worth a 1k then I have no problem with paying that, if I feel the need. However, to charge an extra $600 just because your looking out for your installers, instead of your customers, doesn't give people like me confidence in your business practices. Don't get me wrong, I'll bought plenty of overpriced theater gear, but I always felt the price was justified... however in this case, I don't, given what I know so far.

            Remind me not to purchase your VUDU XL when it is released, after all given my DIY nature, I should be able to figure out a way to clone your 250GB HDD onto a 1TB drive in no time.

            Comment

              #7
              Re: Difference between VUDU an VUDU XL

              Keep in mind that what I said was opinion and guessing, not a position based on facts.

              Comment

                #8
                Re: Difference between VUDU an VUDU XL

                Originally posted by rstone View Post
                So what you have to spend 40-50k before your meet the prerequisites to get taken advantage of??
                No, but we repeat again:

                The product will be sold exclusively through high end home theatre installers and dealers.

                Please don't rag on Vudu because they have a specific product that they choose to market through a specific distribution channel. The $999 isn't price gouging. From what I understand, the only difference is not the hard drive. I don't know the complete difference between the two boxes, but there are some and it's not just the hard drive.

                You are so over focused on this storage thing.

                Vudu has decided they want a market path through the high end installers. That's it - plain and simple. They feel the $999 price tag and the features of the box are appropriate for that market. Many people there aren't a lot of the "DIY" types like you.

                Why is a Mercedes so much more expensive than a Chevy? The fact that an S-Class coupe can cost something like $150,000 surely can't be related to material cost alone....And both a Chevy and the S-Class will drive you around town and on the highway at $65 MPH. Is it worth a $125,000 difference? Well, I own a Mercedes but I bought it used and it's not an S-class! Even if I could buy a car that costs as much as a house I probably wouldn't. But there are people that will. That's the idea of this market. Is it fair that I can't afford an S-class coupe? I love the car and it would be great to have. Is it fair? No, it's not. But who said life was fair?

                As for cloning the drive and figuring out how to expand it - Good luck. My understanding is that the encryption mechanism on the drive is quite sophisticated. You'll void the warranty of both the box (and likely the stored content guaranty as well should your new hard drive die) and end up with something that Vudu could likely disable. Think about it. They know your serial number of your box and your client ID. If it reports back more memory available on the built in hard drive than what is a known size for that box, they could just wipe out your access. I'm not saying they will, but it's possible. Your terms of service on the box prohibit such tampering.

                I'm not trying to be an a-hole here but the last thing Vudu needs is people doing such things and making it work. The studios are already jittery enough with letting digital HD content be stored on a hard disk. It would be a bad, bad thing for all of us if someone broke the encryption code and started putting downloaded movies up on bit torrent. Yes, Vudu would quickly move to restore and harden the encryption further, but that would make a nervous industry of content providers even more nervous. I know that attempting to figure out how to expand the hard drive size is not the same as decrypting the content, but it is close in nature and to a non-technical studio exec, it could look the same.

                Three of the four moderators here are ReplayTV afficianados who have expanded our ReplayTVs and have helped in that community to extend the lifetime and usability of a product that died an early death. The three of us love the idea of tinkering with stuff and expanding capabilities beyond what was originally envisioned. But the Vudu is too new and the relationship with the content providers too young and too developing to even think about trying to do anything with these boxes...

                Comment

                  #9
                  Re: Difference between VUDU an VUDU XL

                  Originally posted by NA9D View Post
                  The product will be sold exclusively through high end home theatre installers and dealers.
                  That is unfortunate...

                  Originally posted by NA9D View Post
                  Please don't rag on Vudu because they have a specific product that they choose to market through a specific distribution channel. The $999 isn't price gouging. From what I understand, the only difference is not the hard drive. I don't know the complete difference between the two boxes, but there are some and it's not just the hard drive.
                  I never said it was price gouging, I was implying that if it was found to be price gouging than the price would not be justified. And while I do not know all the new features of the Vudu XL, if it were purely just a hard drive upgrade only, some might not look to favourably on the price difference.

                  Originally posted by NA9D View Post
                  You are so over focused on this storage thing.
                  Sorry, I'll be sure to stop purchasing movies right away. Speaking of which I already managed to exceed the capacity of my hard drive, so excuse me for being concerned with the storage situation. I guess if you guys don't want my money, that's fine, I'm sure I can go back to buying DVD's.

                  Originally posted by NA9D View Post
                  Vudu has decided they want a market path through the high end installers. That's it - plain and simple. They feel the $999 price tag and the features of the box are appropriate for that market.
                  More power to them.

                  Originally posted by NA9D View Post
                  Why is a Mercedes so much more expensive than a Chevy? The fact that an S-Class coupe can cost something like $150,000 surely can't be related to material cost alone....And both a Chevy and the S-Class will drive you around town and on the highway at $65 MPH. Is it worth a $125,000 difference? Well, I own a Mercedes but I bought it used and it's not an S-class! Even if I could buy a car that costs as much as a house I probably wouldn't. But there are people that will. That's the idea of this market. Is it fair that I can't afford an S-class coupe? I love the car and it would be great to have. Is it fair? No, it's not. But who said life was fair?
                  You know NA94, I bought an Mercedes S550 last year and I loved the car, and while I get the whole idea of paying a lot of money for luxury items, I also get that sometimes the price given, even if not relative to actual cost, are often apparent in luxury products. However, that does not mean that just because Mercedes does it, I feel that every-time I walk into a store or buy some new product on the market, that I should be judged on my pocket book and pay a price that doesn't warrant the extra cost. Maybe the VUDL XL is worth it, I don't know since I don't know all the features, but my point was that if it were purely just a hard drive upgrade, than I don't think I'd feel that was justified.

                  Originally posted by NA9D View Post
                  As for cloning the drive and figuring out how to expand it - Good luck. My understanding is that the encryption mechanism on the drive is quite sophisticated.
                  I never said I was going to do anything, if anything I was being facetious, as you implied I was a DIYer, and therefore was throwing out a DIY solution.

                  Originally posted by NA9D View Post
                  But the Vudu is too new and the relationship with the content providers too young and too developing to even think about trying to do anything with these boxes...
                  Well that may be the case, but it does not seem to have stopped the studios from signing on more to people like Apple and there Apple TV product which has already been hacked.

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Re: Difference between VUDU an VUDU XL

                    Originally posted by rstone View Post
                    Sorry, I'll be sure to stop purchasing movies right away. Speaking of which I already managed to exceed the capacity of my hard drive, so excuse me for being concerned with the storage situation. I guess if you guys don't want my money, that's fine, I'm sure I can go back to buying DVD's.
                    That IS a problem then. I was not aware of this. We'll go and push harder for a date on the hard drive expansion plan.

                    Well that may be the case, but it does not seem to have stopped the studios from signing on more to people like Apple and there Apple TV product which has already been hacked.
                    Well, we don't yet know if AppleTV 2.0 will be hackable - probably will be, but keep in mind that you can't purchase HD content on AppleTV so one won't be able to hack a library of HD movies. Plus Apple has a pretty sophisticated DRM system with FairPlay. I wish Vudu did have something like that so we could download content and play it on authorized devices.

                    Anyhow, I'm sorry if I got your dander up with this. I don't know the details of the entire TB product nor do I know the marketing plan they are going to implement with it either nor do I know what other flavors of the box are in the pipeline.

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Re: Difference between VUDU an VUDU XL

                      Originally posted by NA9D View Post
                      That IS a problem then. I was not aware of this. We'll go and push harder for a date on the hard drive expansion plan.
                      No problem, you probably just missed the Full Hard drive thread I posted earlier in the week. It is all good for the moment, they deleted all my 25 or so TV shows to make room, which while not a perfect solution, has allowed me to use my hard drive again for now. Hopefully, they find a solution soon, because I've been reluctant to put much new on my hard drive, for now.

                      Originally posted by NA9D View Post
                      Well, we don't yet know if AppleTV 2.0 will be hackable - probably will be, but keep in mind that you can't purchase HD content on AppleTV so one won't be able to hack a library of HD movies. Plus Apple has a pretty sophisticated DRM system with FairPlay. I wish Vudu did have something like that so we could download content and play it on authorized devices.
                      Well I would not be surprised if ATV2 ends up being hackable as well, and your right it would be nice if you could move content from VUDU to other devices, or at least to other vudu devices if nothing else.

                      Personally, I don't get the whole issue with storing content offline to be honest. After-all, if the content is encrypted, why does it matter where is resides, as long as people don't break the encryption.

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Re: Difference between VUDU an VUDU XL

                        Originally posted by rstone View Post
                        Personally, I don't get the whole issue with storing content offline to be honest. After-all, if the content is encrypted, why does it matter where is resides, as long as people don't break the encryption.
                        Hey! We agree on something!!!

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Re: Difference between VUDU an VUDU XL

                          Originally posted by rstone View Post
                          That is unfortunate...



                          I never said I was going to do anything, if anything I was being facetious, as you implied I was a DIYer, and therefore was throwing out a DIY solution.
                          Facetious = the only word in the English language to have all 5 vowels in order.

                          I'm just sayin'.

                          Also, to stay on the subject, though...I will be really upset if there are movies/features one can get on the XL that are not available on the regular vudu...

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Re: Difference between VUDU an VUDU XL

                            Originally posted by Glassjoe View Post
                            Also, to stay on the subject, though...I will be really upset if there are movies/features one can get on the XL that are not available on the regular vudu...
                            I don't think that would happen. VUDU would be committing suicide if they did.

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Re: Difference between VUDU an VUDU XL

                              Originally posted by Glassjoe View Post
                              Also, to stay on the subject, though...I will be really upset if there are movies/features one can get on the XL that are not available on the regular vudu...
                              As Ron stated, it probably would be suicide if normal Vudu content were not available.

                              However, being that we don't know what is in the XL boxes yet, we don't know what expanded capabilities they may have that is simply not possible with the standard box.

                              It may seem "unfair" but companies all the time and routinely release products with features and capabilities that older products didn't have. A few months after I bought my 17" iMac (iLamp model) with USB 1.1, Apple released a USB 2.0 version. I bought my 5.5 Gen iPod last June. Yet today, not even a year later, I can't play rented iTunes content on it. The 2008 Honda Odyssey has Bluetooth. My 2006 model does not. I could go on.

                              Comment

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