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Trying to decide

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    #1

    Trying to decide

    Hi, I am ready to make the jump into on-demand internet movie rentals and I'm trying to decide btw Apple TV and Vudu. I've already ruled out the netflix box- it has no appeal whatsoever. To be fair and upfront I am also going to post this on an Apple Tv forum, realizing that ATV folks will all say ATV and all Vudu folks will say Vudu. I just want to know what each group loves/hates about their system. Here is my set up, and viewing habits, along with some of my current thinking- any comments are appreciated:

    Set up- 50" plasma, with surround sound. Fast internet (15+mbps), no wired connection to living room but do already have an airport express set up in there as a bridge curretly feeding Directv on Demand (which sucks!). G router.

    Habits- basically we are the typical rent a new(er) movie on Saturday night. Honestly I may never rent a catalogue title. Also I love HD and prefer to watch HD.

    My own analysis so far:
    1. Picture Quality- I have not seen Vudu but comments here suggest it is very, very good even for SD content. I have watched an ATV HD movie at a friends and I would say that it was very good- not blu-ray but definitely HD, better than DVD and cable HD- verdict: toss up?

    2. Instant Viewing- Vudu has instant viewing. My friend with the ATV has a similar set up to mine (same internet speed and g router) and HD movie started in about 40 seconds with no problems- that is instant for all intents and purposes- verdict: toss up.

    3. Wireless set up- ATV has built in wireless. Not sure why the Vudu doesn't build this in. Have to give the ATV the nod on this one.

    4. Movies- My friend showed me a site (Appletvjunkie.com) that lists ATV's HD movies- as of this morning they have over 400 HD movies. As best I can tell from Vudu site they have about 120. Is this correct? Yes with both devices there are a lot of old movies but any sense of why Vudu is so far behind? Will this change?

    5. Extras- I must say that as an itunes user the photos and music streaming is a nice plus. But I assume that many here are itunes users as well and so am interested in hearing why you chose Vudu over ATV.

    Sorry for the long post but appreciate any thoughts or comments as I try to decide.
    Tags: None
    #2
    Re: Trying to decide

    Hey HeadShrinker. I have both ATV and Vudu and some other folks here do as well. There are advantages and disadvantages to each.

    Vudu wins over ATV in ease of use. It has fewer menus, it's a faster interface and when doing things like trickplay (RW/FF/etc) in a movie it blows ATV out of the water. The ATV interface for trickplay is abysmal. I hate it. It's very difficult to jump back 5 seconds to re-hear some dialog. It's bad. With Vudu it's very simply.

    I have watched HD films on both Vudu and ATV and I think Vudu's PQ was slightly better. To me the colors were deeper and more brilliant. Vudu's SD PQ is phenomenal.

    Vudu has SD content with DD5.1. ATV does not.

    The reason why Vudu elected to go with a wireless adapter was probably due to the fact that wireless can be a tricky thing for streaming. There's also so many different types of wireless connectivity and standards that aren't well defined that there could be problems. The advantage to the new Vudu wireless solution is that it is a DEDICATED wireless link between the Vudu and your router. ATV's is built in but that wireless link is shared w/everything else in your home. Yeah, it's an 802.11n NIC but unless you have an 802.11n router it won't do much good.

    Vudu wins with instant viewing and stability of viewing. I've heard reports of people having to wait in the middle of an HD movie while it is buffering.

    Vudu is lower cost than ATV on a GB per GB comparison.

    Now ATV wins in the HD selection catagory. Vudu has something like 160 titles right now. I'm not sure why ATV is ahead but I do know that Vudu is adding content as fast as they get it.

    ATV also wins in TV content. Vudu has 31 shows or something like that and ATV hundreds. iTunes was one of the first to offer downloadable TV and they have a lead of several years here over Vudu. I am sure Vudu will get more TV in the future.

    Pictures/Music - Again ATV wins although ATV's photo feature is disappointing. Photos have to be synched (now streaming from iPhoto AFAIK) and you can't browse your library. You have to view entire slide shows or events. I bought the ATV for the photo feature and I've been very disappointed.

    Portability - ATV wins as SD content can be put on other devices (iPods, iPhones, etc). HD content is stuck on ATV though.

    It all depends on what you want the box for. If your interest is in streaming other home media, music, photos, etc. along with TV shows and pod casts in addition to movies than the ATV might be a good choice.

    If your primary interest is in a movie rental/purchase device than the Vudu is the best choice. It has the fastest interface, the fastest response time and the best quality. It works better and customer service is outstanding and very helpful (as are we who come here! ).

    Jon

    Comment

      #3
      Re: Trying to decide

      What Jon said is correct. If you are interested only in HD titles and you have no complaints about HD sound limitations on ATV (AFAIK, there are not all 5.1), then ATV looks more appealing because it has more HD content at the moment. But Vudu still has a very large lead on SD catalog though (TV shows exluded).

      Comment

        #4
        Re: Trying to decide

        A couple more points about Vudu that I forgot to add:

        1.) Vudu does software updates about every 6 weeks adding improvements and new features. The Vudu that exists today will be very different in 6 months as new features are rolled out. ATV has had basically two updates in 18 months with only one being really significant. OK, I think there was a 2.1 release but it was bug fix and didn't add any features.

        2.) Vudu is VERY responsive to customer ideas and requests. Many of the improvements to the Vudu box are a direct result of customer requests in these forums. Vudu customers help shape the box. I can't say that for ATV.

        Comment

          #5
          Re: Trying to decide

          The best person to make this choice for you is you. Vudu has a 30 day money-back guarantee. Get it, and see if you like it better. No risk, and a lot of potential rewards. I don't know how generous Apple is with their return policy.

          If you do this (i.e. get both and decide for yourself), please come back here and let us know what you chose.

          Comment

            #6
            Re: Trying to decide

            Ok, so I decided on the Apple TV. Thanks to all who posted. I thought I would give you my reasons in the hope that Vudu will take my thoughts into consideration in future upgrades to the product. I think the Vudu is a nice system with some advantages over the ATV, but some strong disadvantages.

            Now I did not buy a Vudu, but did do a lot of research and thought on the Vudu and I did spend a lot of time with my friend's ATV- here are my conclusions:

            - For me the final, overriding, deciding factors were content, features, and price.

            Content- ATV is adding HD movies at a very fast rate- there are like 420+ HD movies. I've monitored it and they have added 20+/week over the last few weeks. Given that ATV has like 3-4x the HD movies even though it's rental feature is newer concerned me, frankly, about the Vudu. Yes Vudu's picture may be slightly better. I haven't seen it. But I am very pleased with what I saw on the ATV, so an incremental improvement in PQ falls behind the content issue. Maybe Vudu just needs to update its website but it still shows like 120 HD movies.

            Features- this is tough one b/c I realize that Vudu was designed as only a movie rental device. But the ATV gives that feature (with more HD selection) PLUS the music, photos streaming, etc. So I think if you have two devices which essentially do the movie rental thing equally for a similar price then the extras will often be the deciding factor. Another feature that I didn't think about at first is the access to the harddrive of the ATV from your computer and vice versa. For example my friend has his daughter's personally owned DVD's on the ATV for instant viewing. Ok, so I realize there is some controversy about this, but the fact that you can do it is very interesting. But let's say you purchase a movie on iTunes, the same thing applies- can watch it on TV, or my laptop in a hotel room. With the Vudu the box is essentially inaccessible. In order to be competitive with the ATV in the future I would really suggest Vudu design some sort of computer interface with the Vudu allowing some sort of portability and media streaming.

            Price- Someone mentioned that the Vudu is cheaper per GB but that is a bit misleading. The ATV works essentially out of the box. I, at least, don't have ethernet in my living room so for the Vudu I would have to buy the additional wireless kit. Then, since I have a Harmony remote I would have to buy the remote kit ($20) to get everything seamless. So for $300 I may get more GB, but that is partly negated by the fact that with the ATV you can store purchases on your computer.

            Obviously there are more intricacies to each of these points but for the sake of brevity I've tried to condense them. Basically I felt that with the ATV I would get larger HD content, extra media center features, and a device that I did not have to buy a lot of extras for. In return I sacrifice having to wait a minute or so for start time, better trickplay (I tried this on my friend's ATV- it is completely AWFUL), faster interface, and perhaps slightly better PQ (though this is probably arguable and negligible).

            Welcome your continued thoughts and discussion.

            Comment

              #7
              Re: Trying to decide

              Does ATV really have over 400 HD titles? If so VUDU really needs to get on the ball.
              The last few rentals I look on VUDU, Xbox Live and Fios VOD for HD versions of a movie. VUDU is my first choice followed by Xbox Live, but I would like to use the VUDU box for all the HD rentals if I could but the choices are not increasing very quickly.

              Comment

                #8
                Re: Trying to decide

                Problem I have with ATV is that they don't support the advanced audio codecs.

                Comment

                  #9
                  Re: Trying to decide

                  Yes the ATV really does have over 420 HD movies. There is a site called www.appletvjunkie.com that keeps a running list of all HD movies. If you click on the list of HD movies it shows you the date they were added so you can actually count how many are added each week. This is not a site run by apple. I could not find any comparable vudu site so I can only go by the 120 or so listed on their main webpage under movies-HD. Of all the factors leading to my decision this was the strongest. These devices, I believe, will live and die by their content.

                  One other note about my point of buying extras for the device- Vudu should just package everything in one box (system, wireless connectors, remote adapter). Even if they charge the same price as separately I think psychologically people will feel like they are buying a complete product.

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Re: Trying to decide

                    Some people won't accept anything without 5.1 audio. Some people want only HD. Personally, the SD is so good on Vudu that I am willing to wait for the HD side of things to reach critical mass on Vudu.

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Re: Trying to decide

                      Originally posted by HeadShrinker View Post
                      One other note about my point of buying extras for the device- Vudu should just package everything in one box (system, wireless connectors, remote adapter). Even if they charge the same price as separately I think psychologically people will feel like they are buying a complete product.
                      Vudu does include an HDMI cable. That's worth something at retail prices...

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Re: Trying to decide

                        While I agree with some of the issues that the author brought up, bundling isn't one of them. To most people, Vudu remote is going to work just fine, so there's no need to make IR kit it a required component.

                        As for the wireless kit, Vudu already has a bundle which discounts the already-cheap kit even further. Wireless HD video is a tricky business and wired connection is highly preferred by A/V enthusiasts, so Vudu folks probably didn't realize just how many people are unwilling/unable to run cable.

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Re: Trying to decide

                          Well, I guess I did digress a bit in making the point about bundling. Just to clarify the bundling wasn't really an issue in my decision. Instead my mind had moved more to how to optimize the marketing of Vudu. Just a thought, as the built in wireless of the ATV WAS a factor.

                          I have to say that I find myself being curious why Vudu users don't find the pace of HD additions more of a concern. I'm not even a Vudu owner and it concerns me! For example I just checked and from the week starting this past Sunday ATV again added over 20 HD titles and are at almost 440. I guess I shouldn't care one way or the other but doesn't this seem weird to anyone? Why the huge discrepancy?

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Re: Trying to decide

                            Originally posted by HeadShrinker View Post
                            I have to say that I find myself being curious why Vudu users don't find the pace of HD additions more of a concern. I'm not even a Vudu owner and it concerns me!
                            I won't speak for everyone but for me, the quality of the SD is very good so I'm not so concerned about the HD. In fact, I prefer watching an SD movie that is in the 16:9 aspect ratio and fills the entire screen to watching an HD movie that is wider screen with bars on the top and bottom. The HD in that case is a smaller picture so it isn't really giving you 1080 lines of real resolution anyway so the benefit of HD is kind of diminished.

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Re: Trying to decide

                              Originally posted by HeadShrinker View Post
                              I have to say that I find myself being curious why Vudu users don't find the pace of HD additions more of a concern. I'm not even a Vudu owner and it concerns me!
                              Personally for myself, the quality of SD is excellent on vudu and in some cases near HD quality, in my opinion, and therefore I am more concerned with the quantity of movies, then them adding HD movies. Since I watch alot of movies and vudu beats apple in that regard by a landslide, vudu is more appealing to me. Hoverever, for the average user, quantity will still be the deciding factor for most people, IMO. After-all, having alot of HD movies means nothing if people can't find movies that people want to watch (ie: limited quantity). One only needs to look at netflix to see that. Personally, I'd rather see vudu add more studios like MGM, etc...and in turn adding more movies, then worrying about the HD race with ATV. Vudu will get there eventually.

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