MGM to post films on YouTube

[RonV]

Re: MGM to post films on YouTube

What do you mean that copper is only used by DSL?? You cable modem users use copper to. You do know that your cable wire has a copper core right?. DSL is still very popular and just about everywhere, and as long as providers rely on copper for that last mile as part of there internet infrastructure then there will always be a bottleneck. Residential areas need to get upgraded to fiber, which is extremely SLOW going.

One doesn't need to look hard to find reports that state that the "Internet access infrastructure, specifically in North America, will likely cease to be adequate for supporting demand within the next three to five years"

My "last mile" is copper and I am getting 60 mbps down...don't know what you mean about a bottleneck with copper.

See my attached status from my 2wire gateway which is VDSL over copper.

[redwein]

Re: MGM to post films on YouTube

The cable provider is already leasing the pole from the utility company for their existing cable. So I wouldn't think there would be a significant increase in recurring costs.

Where are these poles that you are talking about? All of our wiring is underground. I believe that is pretty typical for anything built in the last 10 to 20 years or so.

[redwein]

Re: MGM to post films on YouTube

Unfortunately, one of the disadvantages of cable is that it has high latency, which cause noticeable performance degradation.

I see latency readings of ~10ms from tests at dslreports for my cable modem. That doesn't seem like high latency to me.

[rstone]

Re: MGM to post films on YouTube

I see latency readings of ~10ms from tests at dslreports for my cable modem. That doesn't seem like high latency to me.

Yeah, but those readings are not from peak times. I'd be interested to know what your readings are during the evening, when cable is usually at peak usage.

[HeadHodge]

Re: MGM to post films on YouTube

Where are these poles that you are talking about? All of our wiring is underground. I believe that is pretty typical for anything built in the last 10 to 20 years or so.

All my electric, phone, and cable are still on electrical poles outside my homes in Oregon, Sacramento, and San Diego.

But nontheless, the same concept applies for buried cable. All the easements and rights to have in-ground cable have already been obtained by the cable provider, so it should be possible to run the fibre through the same underground conduit or lay another conduit to replace or beside the existing conduit.

[HeadHodge]

Re: MGM to post films on YouTube

Yeah, but those readings are not from peak times. I'd be interested to know what your readings are during the evening, when cable is usually at peak usage.

So it sounds like your not saying cable wire has itself some inherint latency, but rather there is a latency introduced from network congestion.

Sat communications has a true latency created by the physical distances involved.

So I would think any cable latency could be resolved from better technology, but probably nothing could be done for Sat comm latency.

[rstone]

Re: MGM to post films on YouTube

My "last mile" is copper and I am getting 60 mbps down...don't know what you mean about a bottleneck with copper.

Copper has rate/reach limitations which fiber does not, that limitation creates a bottlenecking effect by creating a place at which progress is impeded, basically the "last mile." That distance limitation for things like DSL, ADSL, VDSL is usually less than 1000 feet. For business user, VDSL is not an effective business solution as it lacks upstream capabilities at mid-long distances. Lastly, if you think copper presents no limitations then you obviously believe fiber to the home has no benefits to users over copper to the home. The truth is fiber can run circles around anything even optimal VDSL can provide.

[rstone]

Re: MGM to post films on YouTube

See my attached status from my 2wire gateway which is VDSL over copper.

VDSL's problem, though, is that these high speeds tail off quickly with distance. At only 3200ft from the central switching office, the maximum speed has already declined to 30Mbps.

Few homes are located that close to the DSLAMs in the central office. The number is less than 10 percent of the population in most countries according to most reports. To deliver the full 50Mbps experience, VDSL connections should be less than 1400ft, which means that a hybrid fiber system is absolutely essential to see these kinds of speeds.

In fact, many phone companies are planning Fiber to the Curb (FTTC), which means that they will replace all existing copper lines right up to the point where your phone line branches off at your house. Which in my opinion, is an acknowledgment by the phone companies of the limitations of Copper to the curb.

[redwein]

Re: MGM to post films on YouTube

But nontheless, the same concept applies for buried cable. All the easements and rights to have in-ground cable have already been obtained by the cable provider, so it should be possible to run the fibre through the same underground conduit or lay another conduit to replace or beside the existing conduit.

Sounds like digging up streets may be involved, which could be non-trivial and expensive, to say the least.

[HeadHodge]

Re: MGM to post films on YouTube

Sounds like digging up streets may be involved, which could be non-trivial and expensive, to say the least.

Maybe, depending on what type of conduit they laid. It's not that hard to rip a trench in asphalt or cement. But it's a challenge to do it while leaving at least one lane open.

I know lot's of sub-divisions where their utils are in-ground. But I don't personally know of any that don't have the sub-division service dropped from a pole from a main road or hwy. In these cases I would think the home services terminates at a junction in a homerun (or star) fashion. So I'm not suggesting that every homes wiring should be replaced, but instead just to the junction where it interfaces the homes wire to the drop point (usually a pole in my realm of experience)

[NA9D]

Re: MGM to post films on YouTube

Few homes are located that close to the DSLAMs in the central office. The number is less than 10 percent of the population in most countries according to most reports. To deliver the full 50Mbps experience, VDSL connections should be less than 1400ft, which means that a hybrid fiber system is absolutely essential to see these kinds of speeds.

What AT&T did was put DSLAMs in every neighborhood fed by fiber. So now user is farther than a few thousand feet from a DSLAM. The independent DSL CLECs like Covad are still stuck with the old DSLMAs at the CO as the courts said that the ILECs don't need to open up anything other than their traditional copper networks.

Also, it is 7:45 PM right now where I live. I just pinged yahoo.com and my roundtrip ping time was less than 50 mS.

Also, regarding digging up streets - nope - not necessary at all to run fiber. A few years ago Comcast ran fiber in my neighborhood. I have fiber up to the node out in my neighbor's yard where it becomes coax. They have easements in all the yards all ready. The don't even need to dig up the yards. The have these underground utility machines which are able to dig the hole and then they just run the fiber through those holes. Even the electric company does this. They recently ran new lines through a large part of my subdivision. It was the most dig up of any utility I have seen but they ended up digging up a few patches in a few yards and that was about it.

Now, if you go outside of major metro areas, then we are talking poor infrastructure. My father in law can only get dial-up on his farm. However, Sprint does have EVDO coverage where he is for some strange reason (he's right on the edge) and when we visit at least I have my broadband!

Of course, now that Barry is prez, all this will be fixed and the ocean levels will drop as well....

[RonV]

Re: MGM to post films on YouTube

AT&T put VRADs within 3000' of most neighborhoods they support...when then go beyond 3000' feet they then bond two pairs to cover the speed reduction.

Redwin I never said that copper was equal to fiber. I used to work for Ameritech and know that fiber has copper beat. The issue is the cost of fiber to the prem is so prohibitive in established neighborhoods. Anytime I can get 60 mbps or 120 mbps up/down without digging up and replacing the cable is a good compromise.

I don't know if "Berry" can solve this problem...maybe the public works projects he is talking about. But you know he isn't the prez yet.

[redwein]

Re: MGM to post films on YouTube

Yeah, but those readings are not from peak times. I'd be interested to know what your readings are during the evening, when cable is usually at peak usage.

I've done tests throughout the evening. The last one was just a few minutes ago. None of the readings was above 15ms. The readings were all in the 10-15ms range.