Edge of Tomorrow - another reason why UV prices need to come down

[Walter-S_North_Carolina]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow - another reason why UV prices need to come down

Back to the original thread topic.

I purchased "Live Die Repeat: EoT" EST from Vudu in HDX with the bonus features.

LINK:
http://www.vudu.com/movies/#!content...bonus-features

Good movie. My family watched it last Friday night together. It was a lot of fun.

I never even considered buying the physical. To me it would make no sense. Why would I buy a lamp with the stiletto leg of a lady cast in fishnet stockings when I would never have any intention of putting it in my front window, no matter how little it cost.

If I bought the physical version of the title, redeemed the UV, I would never again touch the plastic disc media and it would collect dust in a storage box in my garage while it slowly deteriorated. I can think of no reason to justify buying an item just to hoard something I would never use.

[Squatting Hen]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow - another reason why UV prices need to come down

Back to the original thread topic.

I purchased "Live Die Repeat: EoT" EST from Vudu in HDX with the bonus features.

LINK:
http://www.vudu.com/movies/#!content...bonus-features

Good movie. My family watched it last Friday night together. It was a lot of fun.

I never even considered buying the physical. To me it would make no sense. Why would I buy a lamp with the stiletto leg of a lady cast in fishnet stockings when I would never have any intention of putting it in my front window, no matter how little it cost.

If I bought the physical version of the title, redeemed the UV, I would never again touch the plastic disc media and it would collect dust in a storage box in my garage while it slowly deteriorated. I can think of no reason to justify buying an item just to hoard something I would never use.

Sure, but you could sell it, give it to a friend or family member or just donate it to your local library. You don't have to keep it. We donate stuff all the time to the library and Goodwill.

The main point it, you get more for around the same price when you buy the disc. Reguardless if you use the disc, trash it, donate it or whatever. Untill there is a reason that the majority of people can see, digital will not sell more than disc. MP3 albums are almost always cheaper or the same as the CD. Major difference is you can always sell, donate or give away a physical copy of something.

Also...I have more digital movies and TV shows than I do physical. I have more digital books and audiobooks then I do physical books. Same applies to music. I donated most of my books, CD's and DVD's to the library.

[Walter-S_North_Carolina]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow - another reason why UV prices need to come down

I guess your argument is valid.

I just don't go around making purchases with the thought that I should shop for items to donate when the same price as something I would buy just for myself.

For instance, if I see a bogo (buy-one-get-one) deal on generic soup when I really want Campbells soup, I do not think to myself that I should buy four and give two away of the generic. I would just buy two of the Campbells and walk out.

I guess I am a little selfish. Not sure.

[Squatting Hen]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow - another reason why UV prices need to come down

I guess your argument is valid.

I just don't go around making purchases with the thought that I should shop for items to donate when the same price as something I would buy just for myself.

For instance, if I see a bogo (buy-one-get-one) deal on generic soup when I really want Campbells soup, I do not think to myself that I should buy four and give two away of the generic. I would just buy two of the Campbells and walk out.

I guess I am a little selfish. Not sure.

See, for me, I would buy two to get two, save money, and eat the four cans of soup. Soup doesn't expire for a while. Now if I didn't like the generic at all, I wouldn't buy it.

That's kind of two different things though. Let's say Cambpells soup was $2 each....but....if you buy 3 of them, you only pay $2.25 total. Wouldn't you always buy 3? That is just about the same as the first post.

Also, if the digital only copy was $19.99 and the blu, dvd, digital was $19.99 then this would be relative: If Campbells soup was $2 a can, but it was buy one get two free, you wouldn't just leave two on the shelf and get one....right? Same theory.

I don't always buy things and think, "I am going to donate this." I buy things and think, "Is this the best deal/price?" I mean, I wouldn't buy a movie from ABC Shop if it was $29.99 when I could get it from XYZ Shop for $19.99.

I am I only having a friendly conversation, no argument intended. I couldn't care less what other people buy. It's their money. I do try to help my friends and family save though.

[Gnatevil]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow - another reason why UV prices need to come down

Just my 2 cents...

I buy the physical copy and get the digital if available (either thru code or D2D). I do this so I can watch the physical disc and my kids can access the digital version wherever they may be. Right now, they are all across the states. I've noticed that the picture and sound (sound mostly) is better with the physical disc over the digital copy. Also, if my internet is out, I can still watch what I want.

I know I can download the copies to my computer, but that takes up way too much space on the drive. I know that storage is cheap, but that's why they are stored in the cloud.

As for price for the movie, I'm not going to pay full retail for just digital. New releases come out on sale for about $5-$10 off their normal retail price. If you wait a few months, you can usually find them cut even more if they didn't sell well. I've found "new releases" that were at half the price of the release sale price. I don't have to have the movie on day one (or even before it's available on disc). I can wait. I've got plenty to watch and more than enough video games to play while I wait for price drops.

Now, if and when my blu ray players all die, then I may go pure digital, but until then...I'll keep popping the discs in and out.

[Walter-S_North_Carolina]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow - another reason why UV prices need to come down

Yeah, there is a lot of personal preference in these types of decisions.

I know I am more of an exception then the rule. I have long been looking for a method to digitize my entertainment library. At first there were networked Juke Boxes. They were very expensive though. Then with client-server technology running on a home LAN, there was introduced several methods to payback media files. I did this for awhile, but the administrative overhead was a pain and ended into a back hole of my free time.

Streaming is stupid easy and I finally have the holy grail of the entire entertainment library under a single user interface with fully baked mobility. With that in hand, I am giddy to have a decade long search completed and have since lost the need to retain physical copies.

I do understand I may be unique, but it has been a decade long project I am glad to be able to call done and am very satisfied with the playback methods now available.

[RogerJ]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow - another reason why UV prices need to come down

I guess I don't understand why more people aren't talking about the quality difference. As a movie enthusiast, I'm also very much a videophile and audiophile. We have a nice home theater and I want the best quality from it.

So yes, we love digital for convenience in some situations and for mobility streaming... but when I really just sit down to watch something, I absolutely want the best quality I can get from it. I don't understand how anyone that has an even half-way decent TV wouldn't want the best quality. Especially if you can get it for a nearly the same price or just a few dollars more than a Digital-only copy. AND if it actually includes a digital version to boot, it seems like a no brainer to me.

I understand that everyone has their preference of quality vs convenience vs price... (And content extras could be a factor, too) And so the Blu/DVD/Digital combo packs out there may offer a different value to different people. But that being said, here are a few scenarios of how I think most average, typical consumers may place their value...

To the average, typical video/audiophile shopper:
Hypothetical Movie A: $30
Blu-ray Value: 50% = $15
Digital HD: 30% = $9
DVD: 20% = $6

To the average, typical value shopper:
Hypothetical Movie A: $30
Blu-ray Value: 33% = $10
Digital HD: 33% = $10
DVD: 33% = $10

To the average, typical convenience shopper:
Hypothetical Movie A: $30
Digital HD: 50% = $15
Blu-ray Value: 25% = $7.50
DVD: 25% = $7.50

And none of these models take bonus content or extras into account.

Obviously there can be a TON of variance with this depending on the individual. People who don't care about one format or another at all, would obviously put 100% on just one format. That being said, all three clearly still have some value in general. Be it for flexibility of use, re-sale, gifting, etc.

The general average, typical, consumer public will just never adopt a predominately digital format and really begin the practice of regularly buying Digital-only if the price difference between Blu/DVD/Digital Combos and Digital-only is nearly the same price or only a few dollars less. So even if anecdotally some individuals are happy to pay nearly the same price, most people never will.

On all of that logic, it is insane to me that they charge as much as they do for regular-priced Digital-only. As a business model, it seems more than just flawed. Hypothetically, wouldn't 1000 people paying $10 for a title be better than 100 people paying $20?

Obviously I don't know what the actual numbers would be. But I've been in marketing long enough to know that it would be somewhere in the ball park. Or at least near by. At the very least, it's a strong and reasonable argument.

And finally. there is also the entire argument of being able to giveaway or re-sell specific titles from your physical media library if you so choose. With digital, this is not even an option. Ever have buyers remorse or decide you just don't like something? "Too bad!" when it comes to Digital-only.

[Walter-S_North_Carolina]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow - another reason why UV prices need to come down

great question. kalidiscape. pure digital for high end setups where the TV is the size of a swiming pool. They are totally UV too.

For me and my standard flat screens, Vudu is more then enough.

Oh, and you may want to reaility check that resale argument. In my town, most pawn shops will not take movies in BRD or DVD, leaving the street value at zero. The few who do will buy a DVD for $0.25 and a BRD for $1.00. This is due to so many people selling and not enough buying. The market has shifted to where the street value of physical media has crashed to a few points away from nothing.

You may think there is a large value in a physical media collection, but that is just not the reality we live in.

[RogerJ]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow - another reason why UV prices need to come down

great question. kalidiscape. pure digital for high end setups where the TV is the size of a swiming pool. They are totally UV too.

For me and my standard flat screens, Vudu is more then enough.

Oh, and you may want to reaility check that resale argument. In my town, most pawn shops will not take movies in BRD or DVD, leaving the street value at zero. The few who do will buy a DVD for $0.25 and a BRD for $1.00. This is due to so many people selling and not enough buying. The market has shifted to where the street value of physical media has crashed to a few points away from nothing.

You may think there is a large value in a physical media collection, but that is just not the reality we live in.

I'm not even sure if your comments were in rebuttal to mine. If so...

Taking your movies to a pawn shop is NOT re-selling them. That is taking them to a re-seller for either nothing or next to nothing so that THEY can re-sell them. eBay, craigslist, etc is reselling them yourself. I do quite fine re-selling movies. But then I use this small tool called the internet to do so. You may have heard of it, we're using it now.

Blu-ray sales are doing just fine by the way:
http://www.the-numbers.com/weekly-video-sales-chart

They don't even track Digital sales very well yet:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/16/bu...anted=all&_r=0

And distinguishing digital "sales" from digital rentals or subscriptions services is a hot mess on a per title basis. So there's no real data to even analyze for apples to apples. Only minor conjecture based on consumer trends which is what I was referring to.

The only solid numbers available right now for a good comparison are for the complete fiscal year, last year. 2013 digital sales were somewhere in the ballpark of 1.19 billion. While 2013 DVD/Blu-ray sales were about 7.78 billion. Digital subscription and rental based services did more than five times better than digital sales at 5.27 billion even though DVD/Blu-ray sales have been outdoing DVD/Blu-ray rentals for years now. And DVD/Blu-ray sales alone did better then every single digital movie service from digital rental, on-demand and subscription combined!

Of course, much of the above speaks to the sales market far more than the resale market. All that being said, reselling Blu-rays was only a tiny fraction of my argument. Why did you focus so much on just that when it made up so very little of all my points?

Oh, and if you can't see the difference between Digital HD and Blu-ray on even a 40" TV, (not the size of a swimming pool) clearly you are not part of the videophile crowd and therefore part of one of the other scenarios I gave. It is the reasons I gave several of those scenarios. Obviously there are many different groups that people can fall into. Maybe I didn't make that clear enough when I had mentioned it several times. But then, I'm not even sure what your first sentence meant. I re-read it a few time and still didn't quite get your meaning.

Edit: In any case, it is all just good to have the info and everyone's opinion. You may not have even bee referring to my comments. I couldn't tell. Maybe you weren't. In which case, I apologize. And as you said before, "there is a lot of personal preference in these types of decisions." I was just referring more specifically to the "typical" consumer based on the numbers. And based on reasonably analyzing the numbers... Regularly priced digital sales seem at the very lease, a little too high.

[mgbcondor]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow - another reason why UV prices need to come down

All three of my home theaters go thru a DVDO video scaler so as a videophile it is for me very hard to see a significant difference between the physical Bluray and Vudu. Now clearly the audio is a different matter as there is a bigger difference as lossless audio on a Bluray trumps Vudu audio.

And there are many many alternatives to the high cost of buying and storing movies you just have to look.

[Walter-S_North_Carolina]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow - another reason why UV prices need to come down

I'm not even sure if your comments were in rebuttal to mine. If so...

Taking your movies to a pawn shop is NOT re-selling them. That is taking them to a re-seller for either nothing or next to nothing so that THEY can re-sell them. eBay, craigslist, etc is reselling them yourself. I do quite fine re-selling movies. But then I use this small tool called the internet to do so. You may have heard of it, we're using it now.

Blu-ray sales are doing just fine by the way:
http://www.the-numbers.com/weekly-video-sales-chart

They don't even track Digital sales very well yet:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/16/bu...anted=all&_r=0

And distinguishing digital "sales" from digital rentals or subscriptions services is a hot mess on a per title basis. So there's no real data to even analyze for apples to apples. Only minor conjecture based on consumer trends which is what I was referring to.

The only solid numbers available right now for a good comparison are for the complete fiscal year, last year. 2013 digital sales were somewhere in the ballpark of 1.19 billion. While 2013 DVD/Blu-ray sales were about 7.78 billion. Digital subscription and rental based services did more than five times better than digital sales at 5.27 billion even though DVD/Blu-ray sales have been outdoing DVD/Blu-ray rentals for years now. And DVD/Blu-ray sales alone did better then every single digital movie service from digital rental, on-demand and subscription combined!

Of course, much of the above speaks to the sales market far more than the resale market. All that being said, reselling Blu-rays was only a tiny fraction of my argument. Why did you focus so much on just that when it made up so very little of all my points?

Oh, and if you can't see the difference between Digital HD and Blu-ray on even a 40" TV, (not the size of a swimming pool) clearly you are not part of the videophile crowd and therefore part of one of the other scenarios I gave. It is the reasons I gave several of those scenarios. Obviously there are many different groups that people can fall into. Maybe I didn't make that clear enough when I had mentioned it several times. But then, I'm not even sure what your first sentence meant. I re-read it a few time and still didn't quite get your meaning.

Edit: In any case, it is all just good to have the info and everyone's opinion. You may not have even bee referring to my comments. I couldn't tell. Maybe you weren't. In which case, I apologize. And as you said before, "there is a lot of personal preference in these types of decisions." I was just referring more specifically to the "typical" consumer based on the numbers. And based on reasonably analyzing the numbers... Regularly priced digital sales seem at the very lease, a little too high.

I guess I touched a nerve? It appears on the surface to be a defensive response. I meant no offense.

If you believe the street value of a used physical copy of a movie on optical disc (BRD or DVD) has not crashed in the past few years, you are mis-informed. If you choose to foot the bill to sell on e-bay or if you choose to use a third party like a pawn shop who buy lower to cover the sale expenses, either way the real market value for used optical disc media of movies has crashed to the floor over the past few years. Strangely, optical disc media of console games has held.

The people I speak to tell me this is due to "Everyone going to streaming" now a days so they are all selling their old collections of movies causing a glut in supply of used media and very little demand.

...and again, if you are an exacting VideoPhile/AudioPhile and do have a sincere desire like me to enjoy the benefits of a purely digital entertainment library, of which the expansion of features can not be ignored, then there is BRD quality via kalidascape. For me, Vudu is more then sufficient.

Sincerely,

[RogerJ]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow - another reason why UV prices need to come down

I guess I touched a nerve? It appears on the surface to be a defensive response. I meant no offense.

If you believe the street value of a used physical copy of a movie on optical disc (BRD or DVD) has not crashed in the past few years, you are mis-informed. If you choose to foot the bill to sell on e-bay or if you choose to use a third party like a pawn shop who buy lower to cover the sale expenses, either way the real market value for used optical disc media of movies has crashed to the floor over the past few years. Strangely, optical disc media of console games has held.

The people I speak to tell me this is due to "Everyone going to streaming" now a days so they are all selling their old collections of movies causing a glut in supply of used media and very little demand.

...and again, if you are an exacting VideoPhile/AudioPhile and do have a sincere desire like me to enjoy the benefits of a purely digital entertainment library, of which the expansion of features can not be ignored, then there is BRD quality via kalidascape. For me, Vudu is more then sufficient.

Sincerely,

I'm sorry if I came off as touchy about it. I wasn't at all. That is just my sarcastic nature coming through.

More people are using streaming compared to a few years ago and less are using discs for video. This is true. But not proportionally at all. And I do make less money selling used DVD/Blu-rays than I used to on eBay but not by all that much. It is certainly a hell of a lot better than pawn shop prices. And footing the bill from eBay? The fees are tiny.

It is not at all a dissimilar trend than what happened with CDs vs digital music over a 15 years ago. But they still sell CDs... and a lot of them. Clearly not as many as they used to but enough that the market would be ignorant to eliminate them entirely any time soon.

Some people are now saying that physical media for movies will be dead in four to eight years. That is nuts. I have no doubt that -eventually- they will. But it won't be as soon as some are saying. Evidence? They have been saying that about CDs since 1995.

I remember the articles... (especially after Super Audio and HD CDs did poorly) The ones saying that new formats beyond standard CDs were not viable and so CDs were going to bed dead in a matter of a few years. I have no doubt that there will not be any new audio CD formats but CDs (And they do still make SA/HD CDs) are still powering on nearly 20 years after that speculation began.

And now I see the articles stating there will be no new formats after Blu-ray. "Discs are dead for video after Blu-ray". It makes me laugh. Some of those articles predate 4K by the way. By a few years. Granted, the 4K releases are technically on Blu-ray, but it's still a new format without being a new format if you understand my meaning.

People saying "Everyone going to streaming"... that's anecdotal but not much real evidence. I know audio discs and video discs are two different animals and they're not exactly apples to apples. But they're certainly as close to a real-world model as you'll find.

Again, I have no doubt that -eventually- discs will be a thing of the past for both audio and video. But the timeline is not nearly as accelerated as some people think. Just go to the audio CD section of any retailer. lol

All that being said, we've gotten pretty far off topic with this one small aspect of why many people think digital video is over priced.

Oh, I do remember Kalidascape now that I know what you meant by it. I never looked much more into them but I certainly will. It seems like it's directed at a pretty niche audience to me but I'll look into it more.

[Walter-S_North_Carolina]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow - another reason why UV prices need to come down

Some people are now saying that physical media for movies will be dead in four to eight years. That is nuts. I have no doubt that -eventually- they will. But it won't be as soon as some are saying. Evidence? They have been saying that about CDs since 1995.

Great! Practical evidence. Here we go.

Automobiles in showrooms now by-in-large do not have CD players in the dash board. CDs are still sold, but have been relegated to secondary status. As you point out, the streaming of video is on a similar trajectory in a five year delta from digital music.

Sony has announced that this month the Playstation TV set top box will be available for purchase. This set top box has no slot in which to put an optical disc. They are unambiguous in their plans to remove optical discs from their products and stream games & TV/Movies instead of a heavy console.

The market trend is clear. With the release of the Playstation TV THIS MONTH we have one of the largest CE manufactures on the planet indicating a disc-free method of content delivery.

This is not pie in the sky, wishful thinking for an ambivalent hope. This is products on store shelves, fortune 500 business planning, and CE competition responding to market demands. NO-DISC delivery is the landscape where we are soon to find ourselves.

There will still be fringe folks huddled around their CD players and watching movies on BRD, but just like cars do not have CD players anymore, the mass middle market will be comprised happily of disc-less content delivery.

[Jeff*H]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow - another reason why UV prices need to come down

People saying "Everyone going to streaming"... that's anecdotal but not much real evidence. I know audio discs and video discs are two different animals and they're not exactly apples to apples. But they're certainly as close to a real-world model as you'll find.

Again, I have no doubt that -eventually- discs will be a thing of the past for both audio and video. But the timeline is not nearly as accelerated as some people think.

Only 20% of DSL-enabled homes have a connection of 3MBPS or higher, the minimum speed that is required to stream video content (9% for homes with 5MBPS or higher); the statistic for fiber connections is also pretty small right now, as I recall. Until fiber connections are more prevalent in more communities around the country, I do not understand how streaming in HD (or SD for that matter) is even an option for most Americans. I have no doubt it will grow by leaps and bounds in the next decade, but for now, DVDs and blu-rays are still the medium of choice for most of America. (That said, I do 75% of my own movie and TV content viewing via streaming, but I am fortunate to have a high-speed fiber connection--and I pay a small fortune for it).

BTW, getting back to the original topic, EDGE OF TOMORROW was absolutely fantastic! I even enjoyed the bonus content. One of Cruise's best movies in ages.

[Walter-S_North_Carolina]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow - another reason why UV prices need to come down

BTW, getting back to the original topic, EDGE OF TOMORROW was absolutely fantastic! I even enjoyed the bonus content. One of Cruise's best movies in ages.

I agree. The "Groundhog Day" meets "Pacific Rim" made for an engaging context.

A top-shelf action flix which has a good amount of re-playability.

...for posterity, I have TWC internet-only 50Mbps service @ $64.99 MRC. I bought my own cable modem to advert the $5.00 per month MRC in using theirs. I find it good value considering I do not have any pay tv service outside of OTT streaming.