Vudu Accelerates Plan to OEM its VOD

[redwein]

Re: Vudu Accelerates Plan to OEM its VOD

I can see them making the software available to be on boxes like TivoHD, much the same as Netflix and Amazon. I also see them working with telcos to be the provider of VOD for their IPTV service. If IPTV is to get off the ground and thrive they need to be able to compete with cable companies in this area and Vudu is a perfect match.

As much as I love Tivo for its DVR capabilities, I hate the way that Amazon VOD and Netflix work on it. I have tried it out but never got far enough to actually rent a movie. The interface is that bad, IMO. Exactly how would Vudu work any better on Tivo given the way that everything uses their basic menu hierarchy?

I would think that Tivo's ultimate goal is to make it easy for users to find a particular movie, regardless of whether it's on TV, or any one of it's content providers (e.g. a unified searching mechanism). If Vudu is just another content provider on Tivo, alongside Netflix and Amazon, I don't see much value. In fact, I'm having trouble envisioning the Vudu interface just pop up on any other device than the STB (or perhaps a computer). Can anyone else see it and describe how they think it would work?

Oh well, I hope it helps the business and I hope they mean it that the will stay in the STB market. Maybe that will just be the premium solution.

[HeadHodge]

Re: Vudu Accelerates Plan to OEM its VOD

In fact, I'm having trouble envisioning the Vudu interface just pop up on any other device than the STB (or perhaps a computer). Can anyone else see it and describe how they think it would work?

Well I don't normally like to answer a question with a question, but if the VUDU STB were the "Tivo" how would they handle interfacing to other content providers?

Another random thought is that the data discovery engine could move to the computer and use that to select movies then "push" it to various 3rd party boxes. But 2 problems I see with that, is the need to have a computer, and it would only work for DVR like devices (i.e. not TV's)

A lot of TV's and STB boxes are supporting the "VIVE" media sharing protocol. That may be a way to provide a consistant interface across devices.

No matter how I look at it, the user experience and probably content qaulity would severly be diluted when trying to appease the least common denomoniator device.

No matter what they do, I believe they will be forced to focus on a very limited set of objectives, irrelevant of the grand strategy. With 50 employees, the exercise in efficient resource utilization will be a major challenge.

So I hope they pick the right pony to win.

[redwein]

Re: Vudu Accelerates Plan to OEM its VOD

Well I don't normally like to answer a question with a question, but if the VUDU STB were the "Tivo" how would they handle interfacing to other content providers?

Another random thought is that the data discovery engine could move to the computer and use that to select movies then "push" it to various 3rd party boxes. But 2 problems I see with that, is the need to have a computer, and it would only work for DVR like devices (i.e. not TV's)

A lot of TV's and STB boxes are supporting the "VIVE" media sharing protocol. That may be a way to provide a consistant interface across devices.

No matter how I look at it, the user experience and probably content qaulity would severly be diluted when trying to appease the least common denomoniator device.

No matter what they do, I believe they will be forced to focus on a very limited set of objectives, irrelevant of the grand strategy. With 50 employees, the exercise in efficient resource utilization will be a major challenge.

So I hope they pick the right pony to win.

Sounds depressing. All I want from Vudu is VOD access (preferably rental), to movies and episodes of TV shows (preferably all of them). I don't care about any other channel or content provider. I mean, how many ways do I need to be able to get YouTube or podcasts? I think it stinks to have to even consider wading through content from multiple providers for movies. Why would I care about Netflix or Amazon if I could get all the movies on Vudu? If we end up with a bunch of boxes competing to just provide a patched together set of content from various "content providers", I think we will all lose. I don't want to use my PC as any part of the process either. Nothing should be more difficult than it is to just go and watch a movie on Vudu today. I can't believe there is anything more worthwhile than that.

[Nded]

Re: Vudu Accelerates Plan to OEM its VOD

I wrote the story ... enjoying the dialog.

While Vudu is undoubtedly the best vod option on the market, don't read too much into its having the best rpu (revenue per user) in the category.

It is a single-purpose machine, so people buy it expressly for the purpose of VOD. That is not why people buy Tivo, cable boxes, Media Center PCs, etc.

If Vudu added PVR/epg capabilities to its boxes, we would naturally see RPU drop.

And, of course, if Vudu capabilities are added to third-party devices, RPU would plunge.

Still, that's not to take anything away from the Vudu experience or their business.

Hi Julie, can you share any other insight with us that may not have been good for the article, but would be interesting to the Vudu user?

[tamanaco]

Re: Vudu Accelerates Plan to OEM its VOD

The main reasons I bought my Vudu box was because it was a small "single" box that I could connect directly to my AV system via HDMI and get VOD (Movie titles) and "other" video content via the internet using a "single" service aggregator. This is also the reason why I bought a SqueezeBox several years ago to listen to music. The Squeezebox allows me to connect to my local FLAC music library and via the SqueezeNetwork it aggregates Internet Radio stations, Internet music services, Podcasts and RSS content. Yes, all of these from one single small box with excellent sound quality. They keep adding channels and that keeps me happy. Their business model is different that Vudu's, but the model has many similarities. They both manufacture their own boxes for streamed media, develop software for their boxes, and are services aggregators. Slimdevices also develops software clients that emulate their hardware boxes... how they money from this... is still a mystery to me. I use their software client when I'm away from home. I think Slimdevices makes most of its money from selling boxes and "maybe" some from the providers with whom they have partnered. Not too long ago they were acquired by Logitech because, like Vudu, they needed to grow their market and did not have the funding.

I made my decision to buy the Vudu box when Vudu Labs was announced as I thought that this addition made them like a SqueezeBox... but for Video. I did not want to add more than one AV component or service provider to get VOD and to get other video/picture channels from the Internet. I did not want to deal with a computers to bridge the video/pictures from the internet to the AV system or view Video content at home in a laptop or desktop screen. I was tired of HTPCs with multiple peripheral hardware additions, drivers and operating systems. The Vudu box was simple and had the video quality I wanted and a very nice user interface to manage the aggregated services. It fits naturally with a TV. When I'm at home I want hear music through my receiver and view video via my LCD HD TV... Yes, I'm old fashion. With Vudu labs they have the potential to add more channels and the users do not have to do anything other than select them in the Vudu interface to view them. Adding more channels, in my opinion, might help them attract more users (costumers).

I have not seen the hardware specifications of Vudu box in detail. I don't even know if Hulu would be interested... but stay with me and hear me a little bit. When I see the way that Hulu is growing I could not help, but think of the Vudu box. Some people are already saying that Hulu might overtake youtube. What better way to get more users than to have both in a single box attached to your TV. I know their content conflicts with other channels, but so does the content of Slacker and Pandora in the Squeezebox. The one thing I found that bother me about their offering was the "required/recommended" hardware to play good quality video... in sync with the sound and without loss of frames. If the Vudu were able to partner with Hulu and bring the channel via the Vudu box it "could" be a winner. (Of course, I'm "assuming" that the Vudu hardware is powerful enough to drive the channel "natively") . If the channel can not be carried in its current form, can the content be made available via the P2P model that Vudu uses for movies?. Slimdevices brings in other content providers, but I don't think they make much money, but I think they get some. They also sell more boxes to the providers user base. Maybe Vudu can work out something similar with Hulu. I can get Slacker Radio or LastFM for free with commercials or I can opt to subscribe to their commercial free service with higher quality audio. Is up to me. But I think that the moment I become a paid subscriber of Pandora via the SqueezeBox... Slimdevices gets a cut. I love the convenience of the Squeezebox... I'd like something similar from Vudu. The Hulu commercials do not bother me one bit... being able to watch last week's Daily Show episodes without having to record it is very convenient. I some times forget to record things. I can also save me some hard drive space to record other things in HD on my DVR. Just some thoughts... Hulu... Vudu... Hudu... Vulu... anyway you spell it sounds good to me.

[redwein]

Re: Vudu Accelerates Plan to OEM its VOD

My main concern about trying to tie everything together in one box is that you will end up having a "jack of all trades/master of none" scenario. Like I said earlier, I think Tivo is a great DVR, but a terrible VOD device. Vudu, on the other hand is a great VOD device. Trying to make Vudu do more than it's core functionality very well could end up creating the same situation as Tivo.

The bottom line for me is that I will continue to use my Tivo as a DVR for as long as they are around and the best DVR. I will continue to use my Vudu as a VOD device for as long as it's around and the best. If each of them add other features and don't compromise their core functionality, I don't care. Whatever they have to do to stay alive. If they muck it up with combining it with a bunch of crap that I don't care about, I'll move on.

I honestly don't think the market really benefits from having a bunch of these devices that stitch things together like either Tivo or Vudu is currently doing. I agree the market might "think" it wants that, just like the market wants free DVRs. The problem is though, that if things like free DVRs win, we will end up losing superior products like Tivo (and ReplayTV which is already gone). I have yet to see a cable company/satellite DVR that doesn't make me feel sick to use.

I will concede that the market may demand that because it sounds so great that I can have one box that does everything. I'll still look for premium devices that do the smaller number of things they do very well. I hope they survive.

[tamanaco]

Re: Vudu Accelerates Plan to OEM its VOD

My main concern about trying to tie everything together in one box is that you will end up having a "jack of all trades/master of none" scenario. Like I said earlier, I think Tivo is a great DVR, but a terrible VOD device. Vudu, on the other hand is a great VOD device. Trying to make Vudu do more than it's core functionality very well could end up creating the same situation as Tivo.

The bottom line for me is that I will continue to use my Tivo as a DVR for as long as they are around and the best DVR. I will continue to use my Vudu as a VOD device for as long as it's around and the best. If each of them add other features and don't compromise their core functionality, I don't care. Whatever they have to do to stay alive. If they muck it up with combining it with a bunch of crap that I don't care about, I'll move on.

I honestly don't think the market really benefits from having a bunch of these devices that stitch things together like either Tivo or Vudu is currently doing. I agree the market might "think" it wants that, just like the market wants free DVRs. The problem is though, that if things like free DVRs win, we will end up losing superior products like Tivo (and ReplayTV which is already gone). I have yet to see a cable company/satellite DVR that doesn't make me feel sick to use.

I will concede that the market may demand that because it sounds so great that I can have one box that does everything. I'll still look for premium devices that do the smaller number of things they do very well. I hope they survive.

I guess you don't understand streaming media technology that well. In the streaming media model the box (decoder/encoder) is like the speakers in your receiver. You can send them sound from the DVD Player, CD Player, Cassette Player, TV, DVR, VCR... you name it... you still get sound. The only issue is decoding/decoding the streamed signal and having a good digital audio processor or video processor to render the stream. Is not as complicated as having a DVR and VOD functionality in the same box. There are THOUSANDS Internet radio stations, many other services in my Squeezebox, I don't have to listen to "any" of them.... but I can choose to listen to as many of them as I want. The higher the bit rate of the stream the better quality I get. The service providers provide the content in a format that can be processed by the Squeezebox. Why does it bother you so much that there are many choices?... You watch what you want and I watch what I want.

[Rusdude]

Re: Vudu Accelerates Plan to OEM its VOD

As much as I love Tivo for its DVR capabilities, I hate the way that Amazon VOD and Netflix work on it. I have tried it out but never got far enough to actually rent a movie. The interface is that bad, IMO. Exactly how would Vudu work any better on Tivo given the way that everything uses their basic menu hierarchy?

I would think that Tivo's ultimate goal is to make it easy for users to find a particular movie, regardless of whether it's on TV, or any one of it's content providers (e.g. a unified searching mechanism). If Vudu is just another content provider on Tivo, alongside Netflix and Amazon, I don't see much value. In fact, I'm having trouble envisioning the Vudu interface just pop up on any other device than the STB (or perhaps a computer). Can anyone else see it and describe how they think it would work?

Oh well, I hope it helps the business and I hope they mean it that the will stay in the STB market. Maybe that will just be the premium solution.

Actually, HD TiVos (S3, HD, HD XL) just got new search functionality that's exactly like what you described -- it searches across all providers. http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/01/07...-a-new-search/

[redwein]

Re: Vudu Accelerates Plan to OEM its VOD

I guess you don't understand streaming media technology that well. In the streaming media model the box (decoder/encoder) is like the speakers in your receiver. You can send them sound from the DVD Player, CD Player, Cassette Player, TV, DVR, VCR... you name it... you still get sound. The only issue is decoding/decoding the streamed signal and having a good digital audio processor or video processor to render the stream. Is not as complicated as having a DVR and VOD functionality in the same box. There are THOUSANDS Internet radio stations, many other services in my Squeezebox, I don't have to listen to "any" of them.... but I can choose to listen to as many of them as I want. The higher the bit rate of the stream the better quality I get. The service providers provide the content in a format that can be processed by the Squeezebox. Why does it bother you so much that there are many choices?... You watch what you want and I watch what I want.

Ok, Assuming I don't undestand what you are saying, though I think I do. I see Vudu's main functionality (the main UI for finding, renting, buying and playing movies and TV shows). Then there is this other thing (called Vudu Labs), which I never go to because I'm only interested in using the highly polished Vudu UI that I mentioned. Now for the Tivo, I use the main Tivo functionality to set up season passes, watch recorded shows, pause live TV, etc. Then there is this other thing for finding stuff elsewhere. I never go there because it sucks.

So I really don't care if they add anything else to Vudu Labs or make extra stuff available on Tivo. I just want it to stay out of the way of the things I said I did. So my question, a few posts ago was could anyone envision Vudu's slick polished experiece on the STB for watching movies be something that could work on a variety of other devices (many without hard drives). The stuff you are saying about speakers being able to play sound from anywhere clearly doesn't answer that question.

BTW, wouldn't it be great if I could just have one box that had a screen, speaker, and all the functionality of Tivo/Vudu/cable/satellite/Hulu, etc.)? Why should I have to go out and buy these extra boxes, just because I want better sound? Or maybe having specialized devices that are well suited to smaller sets of functionality can be a good thing.

[HeadHodge]

Re: Vudu Accelerates Plan to OEM its VOD

BTW, wouldn't it be great if I could just have one box that had a screen, speaker, and all the functionality of Tivo/Vudu/cable/satellite/Hulu, etc.)? Why should I have to go out and buy these extra boxes, just because I want better sound? Or maybe having specialized devices that are well suited to smaller sets of functionality can be a good thing.

Well it wouldn't be great (and I know you didn't mean that).

My experiences with "Combo Devices" have all been disappointing.

A long time ago I bought a TV/VCR combo, and then they came out with DVD's. So I had to buy a DVD player.

Then much later I bought a TV/VCR/DVD combo, and then they came out with Blu-Ray. So again I had to buy another DVD player.

I have a DVD player built into my Bose audio system, but never use it, because it won't support 480p.

Then I bought a new TV because the TV/VCR/DVD combo didn't support HD TV.

The various technologies change so fast and at different points in time, it's much more economical to buy "specialized" devices, that can be used and upgraded as needed without having to toss the whole rest of your system to upgrade a single feature of a combo box.

[davezatz]

Re: Vudu Accelerates Plan to OEM its VOD

I've been involved with Vudu since before the public launch of the product. My impression has always been that their ultimate goal would be to see their VOD product and interface be incorporated into other set top boxes such as those from cable companies, etc. This isn't really all that surprising.

Also, people have been predicting the death of Tivo for years as well...

The cable company is a tough nut to crack, who has their own studio relationships and distribution methods (and still prefer MPEG2). And slow as molasses tech adoption/improvements. So I think you can cross them off your list. I do hope Vudu manages to find more venture capital and some compelling partnerships, or even a meaningful acquisition (I don't want to see another Akimbo or Moviebeam, both of which I had...) - I enjoy the Vudu UI/experience, the quality is great, and the distribution method should appeal as a means of cost savings. Having said that, you mention TiVo - though they've only had a few profitable quarters, they do have a steady, predictable recurring revenue stream and quite a bit of cash on hand. Being a public company, that info is readily available. Vudu is private and we don't really know their financial status.

[HeadHodge]

Re: Vudu Accelerates Plan to OEM its VOD

The more I think of it, if VUDU sticks to the model that it is using to support AVN, that might be well suited to providing a way to accomodate multiple video service providers, like Netflix, Blockbuster, Amazon, etc.

If given customers that kind of choice it would probably compete with VUDU's content services. So they would have to split off their content services into a different division (or dept) and split off their hardware services into another.

It would reduce the content services dept to just another Video Service provider for the VUDU box, but supporting multiple Video Services may make VUDU box sales increase significantly. You would also get a significant increase in secondary adversitement and sales via the various Video Service providers.

If it turns out that VUDU content services can't compete with others, they might have to discontinue it but they would still be able to possibly pick up a large market share for their boxes.

I guess the big unknown is where are the biggest margins, in Content Services, or Hardware Sales??

[HeadHodge]

Re: Vudu Accelerates Plan to OEM its VOD

I do hope Vudu manages to find more venture capital

I hope they realize it's not too late to go to Washington and get in on the stimulus package money free for all.

[tamanaco]

Re: Vudu Accelerates Plan to OEM its VOD

Ok, Assuming I don't undestand what you are saying, though I think I do. I see Vudu's main functionality (the main UI for finding, renting, buying and playing movies and TV shows). Then there is this other thing (called Vudu Labs), which I never go to because I'm only interested in using the highly polished Vudu UI that I mentioned. Now for the Tivo, I use the main Tivo functionality to set up season passes, watch recorded shows, pause live TV, etc. Then there is this other thing for finding stuff elsewhere. I never go there because it sucks.

So I really don't care if they add anything else to Vudu Labs or make extra stuff available on Tivo. I just want it to stay out of the way of the things I said I did. So my question, a few posts ago was could anyone envision Vudu's slick polished experiece on the STB for watching movies be something that could work on a variety of other devices (many without hard drives). The stuff you are saying about speakers being able to play sound from anywhere clearly doesn't answer that question.

BTW, wouldn't it be great if I could just have one box that had a screen, speaker, and all the functionality of Tivo/Vudu/cable/satellite/Hulu, etc.). Why should I have to go out and buy these extra boxes, just because I want sound. Or maybe having specialized devices that are well suited to smaller sets of functionality can be a good thing.

How do I start... The current Vudu interface is not customizable... but in the future it might be... You might choose to remove the Vudu Labs icon on the top right of main page of the Vudu interface. I try to think of the Vudu box as a somewhat customizable TV turner with many stations. In the past you had to live with all those numbers in the dial, but today you can remove the numbers from the dial if they bother you that much. In your case, the Vudu main page you would only have the functions to access the "highly polished content" you want to view. I already do something similar with my SqueezeBox... The menu items can be added or removed from the UI.
I have to ask, are you ever going to be happy with having other content in your Tivo? If not, doesn't Tivo also offer boxes without the VOD bells and whistles. If they do, you should get one of those.
Streaming digital data to be decoded has hardware requirements depending on the stream. Has some decompression/decoding been done at the source or is the box going to do all the work on the flight. Having specialized hardware processors to do the decoding is best. That's why I got a Squeezebox for sound and a Vudu box for video. PC are very lousy at decoding and their DAPs and VPs are not best of breed. They're multi-purpose processors rather than specialized ones. A software client that can run on different platforms also has limitations. It depends which model one is going to follow. It has to be either compiled to run on the specific hardware platform (processor) for performance... This software client will probably take the form of firmware. In the case where you want to run the client on a personal computers, it must be compile to run on the specific operating system.... and call it an application. I'm rambling a bit and simplifying things. The problem with the later is decoding performance and sound/video quality. In the first case if the processor is designed for a specific kind of decoding then it would have special instructions and buffer that can get the job done fast and efficiently. This coupled with a good DAP/VP is the best performing solution, but not the most portable.
Regarding a one box that would be great for sound and video. Well... You can tune the processor to decode sound and video, but it won't be optimal for either. Or you can have two separated processors. In that box you would also need a good sound processor and a good video processor to render the content. I'd prefer taking the guts of the Squeezebox and the guts of the Vudu box and put them together. But this brings other problems... Btw, the Xbox, PS3 and other game consoles claim to do just this... but we all know that they're great "game" boxes. Games consoles requires a different ball video processor wax to build them. In the end, if you're an audiophile or videophile you'll probably want dedicated boxes with dedicated processors to avoid noise and jitter that can be caused when two processors are at close proximity. Again, I'm simplifying quite a bit.
To me the problem is not associated with the streaming technology of audio or video or the number of channels for the dedicated audio or video boxes... but with the content of the content, the interfaces used to manage the content and the "quality" of the resulting video and sound after it has been decoded. I want convenience to manage Video content and convenience to manage sound content... The interfaces to manage each of these look and function differently.
The holly grail for me now is the perfect RF/IR remote to control all the junk I already have. Today I had to get a HDMI switcher because my receiver does not have HDMI and my TV only has one input. I have... a remote for the Vudu, a controller for the Squeezebox, a pseudo universal for my receiver, a remote for the DVR/TV and now a HDMI switcher remote. I just finished training the wife to use the Vudu box... there's going to have to be a post-training session to include the HDMI remote. I'm not looking forward to this. More junk... a Harmony One and an IR adapter for the Vudu box are now in my wishlist.

[redwein]

Re: Vudu Accelerates Plan to OEM its VOD

Actually, HD TiVos (S3, HD, HD XL) just got new search functionality that's exactly like what you described -- it searches across all providers. http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/01/07...-a-new-search/

Well I just got the message on my Tivo Series 3 about this new search mechanism and clicked on "Try Beta". It showed the "Please Wait" icon for the about 10 minutes then just went back to showing live tv. I guess it isn't really ready yet.

According to the article you posted, they are saying it's basically the same as the old swivel search capability but with a snazzy new look, and still separate from the main search capability for programs. Maybe they are perfecting that and it will ultimately become the only search mechanism for Tivo. Time will tell.