Hugely Disappointed new Vudu owner -- rentals

[slikrik]

Greetings,

I am on day 3 of using my Vudu, and I must say I am extremely disappointed with the number of movies that are not available for rental. I canceled my Blockbuster Online account (not to mention paid $400) for the right to... pay $20 to watch a single movie that I may or may not like? The first 6 movies I tried to watch on my first night -- movies that I had not seen before -- were going to cost me $20 each! How is this the future of video rental?

The Vudu website does not do a good job of explaining that such a large selection of movies are purchase-only. I am a huge fan of new gadgets/technology and I'm always the person who takes the dive first and tells all my friends how good (or not) something is, and this is honestly the most disappointed I've been in a long time.

There is nothing I would like to see more than for Vudu to be able to deliver on its promises of being the next thing in video delivery, so I hope the answer to this question is "yes": is the rental thing a temporary issue, or will movies that are purchase-only now, likely remain that way indefinitely? Yes waiting for my movies to arrive by mail isn't as fast, but when you watch as many movies as I do, $15 bucks a month is a helluva lot cheaper than $15-20 EACH -- and the "instant" feature of broadband video certainly isn't enough to warrant the extra cost.

I'm sure I speak for a lot of Vudu users when I say I certainly wouldn't mind paying a monthly fee (even an expensive one compared with blockbuster) if the movies were free or all super cheap. The "no monthly fee" claim really is meaningless when you consider just how expensive the Vudu service is going to be.

Thanks,
RBL

[NA9D]

Re: Hugely Disappointed new Vudu owner -- rentals

I can understand your feelings and disappointment. Certainly the fact that all movies are not available for both rental and purchase is a bummer. I'll agree with you. I know that this is something Vudu is working to address. After all, they want to be the leader in this market and basically put Blockbuster out of business. So yes, in order to do this, the purchase/rental issue will need to be solved at some point. It all has to do with a fairly complex business model that the studios have.

But to be specific to your question - most of the new releases that are purchase only right now will become rentable in a few weeks. So all is not lost.

Second, since you have only had the box for a few days, make sure it updates its database to the latest level. Then a number of those buy only movies will become rentable. The latest software revs should show most of the time when a movie will become available to rent. It will show a "Coming soon" movie as "Own it January 4th Rent it January 21st"

Does this help?

[slikrik]

Re: Hugely Disappointed new Vudu owner -- rentals

Thanks for the response. Is there any way you can give us some visibility into what the studios are doing that prevent you from allowing us to rent everything? Or perhaps into the current state of negotiations (between Vudu and the studios) so that I can make an informed decision as to whether or not this is something I'm going to keep (I still have 27 days to make my decision, I suppose). As it stands now, about 90% of the movies I would like to rent, aren't even available (let alone purchase-only). It's like if a movie is considered a classic movie, it's not available.

I'm actually less concerned about the new releases, and more about the other movies that I consider "classics" -- I don't want to sound like I'm whining, it's just that I had such high expectations and I want nothing more than for this to reach its potential. I just went through my list of "favorite" movies (most of which I actually already own on DVD), just to see if, in general, the movies I like are available. After all, they are from the major studios, so I can't figure out why so many popular movies aren't available -- maybe that's just it: they're popular, and so the studios feel they can make more money by selling DVDs, etc.??

It's uncanny really how few movies that pop into my head are not on the service. I invite anyone else to go through their DVD collection (which no doubt contains many of their "favorite" movies) and see which are available. Does this mean based on the p2p architecture that I may just not have access to them (yet), or does this mean they aren't ever going to be available? I don't understand why every movie from the major studios isn't available.

Where do you stand with getting the studios to cooperate?

[slikrik]

Re: Hugely Disappointed new Vudu owner -- rentals

Also, I apologize -- I totally overlooked the "Things You Don't Like About Vudu" forum. You may move this thread to there if you wish!

[NA9D]

Re: Hugely Disappointed new Vudu owner -- rentals

Thanks for the response. Is there any way you can give us some visibility into what the studios are doing that prevent you from allowing us to rent everything?

I can't go into it in detail as I don't know a lot. The exact nature of the relationships between Vudu and the studios is confidential. But I do know that there are a variety of licensing issues. For example, look at the announcement about HD content. Vudu has plenty of SD content. But then before Thanksgiving, they announced that they had secured license agreements with at least one studio to deliver HD films. So this would lead me to conclude that there are multiple licenses all in play here. If we take it to its worst end, that would mean there would be separate licenses for purchase, for rental, for SD and for HD. I don't know the structures of who or how the negotiate for the licenses but knowing what I do know, it seems the studios have a fairly complicated and tricky business model that is more concerned with protecting content and legacy revenue streams than in embracing new technology.

For example, look at the fact that there are "movie blackout" windows when a movie premiers on a premium channel. Why? Well, the studios are all invested in the different movie channels. They have also invested in BlueRay and HD-DVD technologies. So there are different departments all in the same studio who are each profit and loss centers and who each want to make a buck and turn as much profit as possible. Digital is the small kid on the block right now and I would bet that the digital departments inside the studios don't have the clout of some of the departments like physical media. Make sense?

As for the classic films you like - Vudu does have a good selection - I think. I too was bummed that a film like White Christmas is purchase only. Yet another classic I like - Holiday Inn is rentable. Still, there may be a lot of classics that are purchase only. Fortunately, I think most of those are $9.99. Will they become rentable at some point? I don't know. Maybe.

One user on the forum suggested people write to the studios and demand that they make more content available. While Vudu can't organize this, it certainly would be a good idea for Vudu customers to send letters or e-mails to the studios requesting more content on Vudu and better rental deals. I do believe letters have an impact - particularly if they start getting hundreds or thousands of them.

Anyhow, this box is bound to become better and better over time. Will it be to your liking in 27 days? Maybe not. If you don't think it is worth it now, then by all means - send your box back. Wait 6 to 12 months. The box may be lower cost then. Maybe by then the content you want to be rentable will be rentable. Then you could buy the box then and try again. There's certainly no harm in that. Long term, I think it will be what you want. The question is if the $400 you spend now is the right usage for your disposable income vs. what the box gives you. Only you can make that decision.

[redwein]

Re: Hugely Disappointed new Vudu owner -- rentals

I am curious about how the older movies are added to the library. Is it the studios that just saying this is what they will give you? Is there a negotiation for each title and Vudu has its own list of movies it is going after?

The reason I ask is because I was looking for "Young Frankenstein" the other day and it wasn't there. I was wondering if it was ever likely to show up by itself, or does making title specific requests really have an impact. I would like to see the library grow on its own to eventually cover everthing available in DVD but I'm not sure how that is supposed to play out in the future. Any ideas?

[slikrik]

Re: Hugely Disappointed new Vudu owner -- rentals

Thanks for being so frank about all of this.

I can totally understand (but don't agree with) the views of the
studios, especially since they have a vested interest in so many other forms of media (physical, premium channels, etc.). What doesn't make sense is: I would expect the reverse to be true; namely, that all of the movies are available for rental and not all are available for purchase -- that way they can limit the risk of illegal copyright infringement (at the same time expand the number of uses each movie gets). I'd be much more likely to rent a movie, love it, and then re-rent it again with friends, family, etc. As opposed to buying it sight-unseen, hating it, and being stuck with a less-than-perfect digital copy (that I can't transfer to a PC or anything else). At least if I got to a store and buy a DVD sight-unseen (which, in my 27 years, I have yet to do), and I hate it, I can always sell it on ebay or burn it to stay warm.

I am a little ticked off at Vudu's marketing, however -- and I know this has been addressed in other threads but it bears mentioning that I certainly wouldn't have coughed up the $400 had I known my selection would be so sparse. I'm sure if you had a searchable database on your website that allowed potential customers to see what you had (or more importantly what you didn't have), you would've sold a small fraction of the boxes you've sold -- and I have a feeling Vudu knows this.

By classics I don't mean 60 yr old movies, I mean classics in my lifetime (my top-10 movies do not exist in Vudu) e.g. The Shawshank Redemption, Good Will Hunting, the shining, the usual suspects, etc., etc. There are 50 Indian movies about soccer, but no Godfather, there's a documentary on Craigs List but no Goodfellas.

I'm just venting, but I sincerely hope (but don't have too high expectations) that things change.

[redwein]

Re: Hugely Disappointed new Vudu owner -- rentals

I'm sure if you had a searchable database on your website that allowed potential customers to see what you had (or more importantly what you didn't have), you would've sold a small fraction of the boxes you've sold -- and I have a feeling Vudu knows this..

I think this would be a good feature for everyone, not just propspective customers. I'm not sure about the "small fraction" part though, given the 30 day trial period. If someone really doesn't like it and is too lazy to return it, I put that on them, not Vudu.

[NA9D]

Re: Hugely Disappointed new Vudu owner -- rentals

Well, I think the 30 day return period is the big thing to keep in mind. If you don't like it, Vudu gives you a clear way out.

As for the idea of rental vs. purchase - if the studios can get you to buy a movie you really want for $20 instead of renting it for $3 they win. Odds are you may watch it a couple times. That would equate to maybe $9 in rental fees. They come out ahead because they believe if you want the movie bad enough you'll buy it. At least that's how I make sense of it. I don't agree with their models either.

As for "classics" I see our definitions differ! That's OK, there are big holes in the library.

As for when older stuff is added or how - I don't know. Maybe JohnA can answer that. It's a question I have as well.

I know Vudu is looking to expand the library to 10,000 titles and beyond - to be like what Netflix has in their physical media library. I was hoping it would be by now but maybe I was too optimisitc!

[marlasw]

Re: Hugely Disappointed new Vudu owner -- rentals

Hi
The problem here as I understand it is not VUDU, but the studios.
The studio or film owner- such as a distributor will decide how the content can be viewed. In some cases it is part of the distribution contract and even they would have to make changes in order to allow for rental viewing.

Hopefully they will soon wake from the dark ages and figure out the rental thing. Fox and APPLE made a deal and perhaps the Vudu suppliers will too.

There is a lot of fear in the industry and an unwillingness to pay profits. There is confusion about who will make money on internet and other medias. Some of those internet and download media deals were written in 88 and at that time no one knew what possibilities were coming in the future, so the division of profit must be looked at and in many cases business affairs lawyers will want to re-negotiate all the deals (with actors writers) before they send out rental over new media.

Just another day of Fear Greed loathing in LA.

[Petercarbo]

Re: Hugely Disappointed new Vudu owner -- rentals

I have 2 Vudu boxes. The girl has one. And a few coworkers purchased them over the holidays. I purchased one for my brother for Christmas thru the Evagelist program. Everyone of the people I know is extremely dissapointed with one fact and that is that they can't rent movies right away. Everyone myself included purchased it to rent not to own.

The word of mouth on this box is going to start to build and if they don't fix this rental problem, I think Vudu will not be around for long depending on what kind of cash they have.

Vudu is awesome product, but the studios are going to destroy it if they don't fix this.

[RonV]

Re: Hugely Disappointed new Vudu owner -- rentals

I agree but I think some of the studios / distributors are on board with VOD and what the needs are of the VOD users. Then there are the ones that don't trust the new technology and VOD. I call them the "Disruptor's".

They are the ones that don't want to see anything change in their world unless the lawyer's can agree with it, and happen to be some of the bigger players in the content arena. I think Universal is one of the first major distributor that fully understands the model since the are the distributor of the Bourne movies.