disc to digital... I don't get it.. are the discs unique?

[jeffpn]

Re: disc to digital... I don't get it.. are the discs unique?

I only meant that physical goods and their associated rights can be borrowed, given, rented, traded or sold in any manner under the first sale doctrine.

Gotcha.

[jonline]

Re: disc to digital... I don't get it.. are the discs unique?

Try buying a movie on whatever format you like, put advertisements in the paper that you'll show it on a 50' screen, and you'll charge far less than what movie theaters charge, at only $5 per person.

Sorry, I did not mean to suggest you could use the DVD for a public showing. There are still copyright regulations. You may not publicly show a DVD at any venue for any reason for profit or for free. My church distributed a letter to that effect to stop Disney movies from being shown at their daycare because they were afraid of legal action.

I only meant that physical goods and their associated rights can be borrowed, given, rented, traded or sold in any manner under the first sale doctrine.

[rdodolak]

Re: disc to digital... I don't get it.. are the discs unique?

This was about 18 or 19 years ago. But I would expect Blockbuster and other rental companies to still be paying a higher price for rental copies. Not that this really matters. I don't see that it makes a difference how much Blockbuster paid for the DVD that I bought from them and want to watch in the cloud.

That was true back in the day with VHS when rental companies got access to the movie long before it was available to the consumer through normal retail outlets. That all changed when DVD came on the scene.

Rental companies either sign profit sharing agreements with the studios and get copies for pennies on the dollar or they can go out and purchase the discs at retail and rent them to customers as per the first sale doctrine. With the latter the rental companies have greater up front out of pocket expenses which puts a greater risk on the rental company. Not so much with the former.

Thus "rental" copies, and even regular copies at the moment, which rental companies receive for pennies on the dollar in return for a share of the profit could be easily restricted. Copies bought from retail not so much.

[jeffpn]

Re: disc to digital... I don't get it.. are the discs unique?

Also, I must apologize for highjacking this thread. I do however believe that the original topic was quickly resolved.

[jeffpn]

Re: disc to digital... I don't get it.. are the discs unique?

All of your questions are answered on that page I cited. Bottom line: put your money where your mouth is - what's the name and address of the restaurant? We'll find out together if they're legal or not.

[tfisher]

Re: disc to digital... I don't get it.. are the discs unique?

They even point out that it must be a "willful infringemnt" of these laws. The law itself contains a few loop holes.

Showing the movie in public may be illegal (unless it's a private club of course - members only). But is watching your movie in public illegal? If so, there are a bunch of little kids breaking the law when they take their portable DVD players into stores and restaurants to watch their movies in public places.

It's also possible that the restaurant that I am talking about gets permission to show the movie. I don't know if they do or not. I just know that the guy told me a while back that they don't advertise the name of the movie ahead of time and they don't charge to watch the movie so they don't get into trouble. This means that I could go in and watch the movie for free, but to eat their pizza I would have to pay.

[tfisher]

Re: disc to digital... I don't get it.. are the discs unique?

The exhibition restrictions in copyright laws is intended to restrict content from being placed on the internet or on television where millions have access to view (or more importantly create their own copy) the content.

Some may say that it's illegal for a bar to have a movie showing on their TV. Technically that is true...just like lending your DVD to family members is technically illegal. I would say that it's impossible NOT to break this part of the copyright laws. But nobody is going to interpret the law this way because you have to look at the underlying purpose for the law and what it's trying to prevent.

So what exactly is "unauthorized exhibition"? It doesn't really say. It really leaves a lot open to interpretation. I doubt the big movie industry is interested in finding a restaurant that is showing a movie on their private big-screen TVs to about 20 to 40 of their customers.

[jeffpn]

Re: disc to digital... I don't get it.. are the discs unique?

Here's a link to a page on mpaa.org that addresses the specific issue. It very clearly states that it is illegal to show a motion picture at a restaurant, whether admission is charged or not. My argument is not with tolerance. My argument is about the legality. I would suspect if your restaurant was visited by the legal department of the MPAA while they were playing a movie, they would be imposed with heavy fines.


http://www.mpaa.org/contentprotectio...erformance-law

[tfisher]

Re: disc to digital... I don't get it.. are the discs unique?

You are going to have to cite references. That sounds like your opinion, or your interpretation. I'll see if I can cite references to back up my opinion, but that will be later today. I remember coming across this many years ago. If I'm not mistaken, even the movie itself has a disclaimer about private viewing in the home only.

As far as copying discs, that is not at all what's happening in the D2D program. Nothing is copied. You are just granted access to the file that exists on UV's servers.

You can read the copyright law for yourself. There isn't any law that would make you guilty if someone watched a DVD you own or listened to a CD you own. Playing movies and music you own is your right. Could you imagine trying to find everyone who plays their music too loud and trying to fine them because people in the next car actually listened to their music?

Is this my opinion? Well, yes it's my opinion as to what the law really says and doesn't say. The owner of the media has rights to that media. What the studio is protected from are the copying and distribution of the content.

No, D2D doesn't "physcially" copy the content but in theory that is what is being done. We are making a digital copy (procedurally) so we can watch the movie we already own in the cloud.

[tfisher]

Re: disc to digital... I don't get it.. are the discs unique?

right. That is what I was saying, but in more simplistic terminology.

[Speedaddict81]

Re: disc to digital... I don't get it.. are the discs unique?

That whole 'Public Exhibition' clause of the copyright statement is very vague, it would not surprise me if there are court precedents regarding what is and is not infringement. For that matter...if you take copyright statements seriously (to the letter), you can't tell someone the score from an NFL or MLB game or tell them about that amazing play (at least not if it was broadcast on TV).

[jeffpn]

Re: disc to digital... I don't get it.. are the discs unique?

You are going to have to cite references. That sounds like your opinion, or your interpretation. I'll see if I can cite references to back up my opinion, but that will be later today. I remember coming across this many years ago. If I'm not mistaken, even the movie itself has a disclaimer about private viewing in the home only.

As far as copying discs, that is not at all what's happening in the D2D program. Nothing is copied. You are just granted access to the file that exists on UV's servers.

[tfisher]

Re: disc to digital... I don't get it.. are the discs unique?

I'm sure they'll be okay doing that as long as the studios don't find out. It's one thing for a campground or a school to show a movie, but when establishments like bars start doing it, they've crossed the line. Give me the name of the restaurant, and I'll see if I can dig up a phone number of the proper legal department. We'll find out who's right.

When the studios decide to sell movies on any form of media the content of that media is protected under copyright laws. However, the consumer owns the media itself and they also have rights to that media. Copyright protects the studio in that we cannot COPY the contents (except for personal use which is what we're doing with D2D). However, I can watch the disc all day every day and I can share it with family and friends. If I also own a restaurant or bar than I can watch it there too...and share it with a few fiends. If that were illegal then it would be illegal for you to by a disc and your family to watch it with you.

Studios are also protected from having their content shown on television stations. And, they "may" also be protected from someone charging admission to a showing of their movies. That would be like copying discs and selling them for profit. We cannot do that. But you can show a movie at an event as long as you are not charging for the viewing of that movie.

[jeffpn]

Re: disc to digital... I don't get it.. are the discs unique?

I'm sure they'll be okay doing that as long as the studios don't find out. It's one thing for a campground or a school to show a movie, but when establishments like bars start doing it, they've crossed the line. Give me the name of the restaurant, and I'll see if I can dig up a phone number of the proper legal department. We'll find out who's right.

[tfisher]

Re: disc to digital... I don't get it.. are the discs unique?

Try buying a movie on whatever format you like, put advertisements in the paper that you'll show it on a 50' screen, and you'll charge far less than what movie theaters charge... The studios would shut you down as soon as they found out.

The way businesses handle this is they charge for something else, not the movie. For example, we have a vegan restaurant that has a pizza and a movie night each Sunday. They say that they charge for the pizza and drinks and the movie is free. What they have told us is that as long as they don't collect money for the movie they are safe, and to further protect themselves they NEVER advertise what the movie will be. They say that they always make enough money to cover the expense of buying or renting the DVD (actually, I think they use Blue Ray).