Apple TV take 2: 100 hd titles today

[Chopper]

Re: Apple TV take 2: 100 hd titles today

Ahhh... those WERE the good old days. I will never forget how AMAZING MacPaint was the first time I had seen it. It changed my whole life. I am a graphic artist now because of the Mac my grandfather bought me in 8th grade.

I had the ImageWriterII... the Apple 300 baud modem... Apple external disk drive....

Had some great software titles that I used to death.
Some favorites were: Dark Castle, VideoWorks, Skyfox... damn.... i seemed to have forgotten half the titles. But damn if they werent great.

[RonV]

Re: Apple TV take 2: 100 hd titles today

I to had a 128k then I self upgraded to the 512 and then purchased the 512ke update to get double sided floppies, serial port for HD access. The got a Mac II and a Mac IIcx which made be become disenfranchised with the Mac since Apple couldn't deliver 32 bit on these systems as promised. Took a 3rd party extension just to get VM working.

I still like the Apple hardware but they sold out in the operating system space and used Free BSD as their OS instead of continuing to pursue a "True" Apple OS.

I remember watching the bits on the screen with a disk copy....that was pretty cool back then. Oh yea we only had two applications. Mac Paint and Mac Write. Don't eject the disk to write to another floppy...you would be swapping disks all day.

[Greg]

Re: Apple TV take 2: 100 hd titles today

Fair enough. I too am a big mac guy, having used them since 1985... with my Mac 512k... which I still have and fire up once in a while for kicks.

Ah... I still have a soft spot for my 128K (the 512K's little brother). I remember memory was so tight that it had to use the video buffer when copying a floppy: that resulted in the 512x342 bw screen getting filled with what looked like garbage from top to bottom in-between "Please insert disk: blah" messages... Those were the days when "Disk Image" had a true meaning!

-- Greg

[Chopper]

Re: Apple TV take 2: 100 hd titles today

Fair enough. I too am a big mac guy, having used them since 1985... with my Mac 512k... which I still have and fire up once in a while for kicks.

I just didnt want to see a QB controversy here on our very own boards. For those who don't do sports message boards... they are the worst of all arguments!!!!

For the record, RIGHT NOW.... I like Vudu better than AppleTV. I like the interface better, the remote MUCH better, the ability to rent or purchase (even though I'm a renter), and the fact that it does one thing, and one thing well... and thats movies. In my opinion, Apple has a way to go before the interface can match Vudu's. Its just an easier and better experience.

The ONLY things I see holding Vudu back are these:

1. Lack of Wi-Fi (just unacceptable to me)

2. The total confusion of rentals/purchases ability. Some you can buy... some you can rent... some are removed... blah blah blah. I realize this is not their fault per se, but SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE!

If anything positive will come from the competing AppleTV, maybe they will break the current mold with the studios, and Vudu will reap the benefits. I can't see why they can't get the same benefits as Apple when it comes to negotiations.

I also realize this is all new frontier. See the writers strike. These studios dont have a clue how to handle the changing world of entertainment. All they know is that they want to make as much money as possible... at the risk of backwards progress. And that seems to be what we are seeing. In this day and age, we should be able to buy, rent any movie... anytime... even new theater releases at home. As long as they are making the money... what's the difference? Why can I go to a hotel, and watch the movies that are in the theater RIGHT NOW... but not do it at home? So many rules.... so many exceptions... so much b?llsh?t.

[NA9D]

Re: Apple TV take 2: 100 hd titles today

You may own an AppleTV, but you sure go out of your way to defend Vudu and put down Apple. Go back and read your first 5-10 posts in this very thread and then tell me again how partial you are.

I think its fair to say that EVERY POSTER ON THESE BOARDS wants Vudu to do well, and are hoping for good things soon.... because we all own Vudu Boxes!

Why do you and other folks have to take sides? Can't we just talk and compare competing products without having to defend one product of the other?

To quote Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along?"

OK first off, not everyone who reads these forums and not everyone who posts here is necessarily interested in Vudu's success. Most are, some are not.

If you go back and read the first few posts of this thread you'll see statements such as:

All in all, I'm disappointed that Vudu hasn't been able to capitalize (at least it's not immediately apparent) on contractual agreements for movies where Apple seems to have flourished.

and

VUDU: Automatic loss of any market share they ever had!!

And there's more comments like that.

Additionally, if you go back and read a lot of the criticisms about the Vudu you'll see recurring themes:

- 24 hour rentals
- not all content in Dolby Digital
- too expensive
- etc., etc.

Some of the naysayers have stated that these issues make the Vudu a worthless product. I am simply pointing out that AppleTV has many of the same limitations and that once you start looking at those limitations the differences between the two products aren't so much and in fact, Vudu has several positives going for it.

People claim the AppleTV now is such a better deal because of the price being $229 as opposed to $399 for Vudu. But is it? If you want storage space, it isn't.

I'll take issue with Ed here that I don't think AppleTV 2.0 is enough or whatever he said. I don't know what it will be like as it's not out. I hope that they've improved things with the Photo features and I like the idea of being able to buy/rent content right from the box. Will I ever use the AppleTV for those features? Probably. I hope I use it for more than I do now. I use it now for viewing HD podcasts and my once in a while You Tube fix. There's a ton Apple could do to improve the product that has nothing to do with movie rentals.

Is renting something always the way to go? I dunno. My kids watch some content many, many, many times. I'd rather buy for them. If some cool movie they like and will watch comes out in HD, I'd want to purchase the HD version as they'll enjoy it more and I won't have to rent it over and over and over. Everyone has different needs and wants in regards to what they buy and rent, etc. I think it is a huge disadvantage that Apple only offers HD rentals. And it's huge that you can only get HD from the AppleTV and not from iTunes itself.

If the AppleTV offered instant viewing like Vudu, if it offered 1080p content, if the SD content was in DD, and if I could take that content move it from computer to computer, put it on my iPod, etc (true content portability), then I think the AppleTV would be a killer product and Vudu might have a hard time (except for people like Ed and Ron who will never buy anything from Apple - even if their life depended on it). But right now, AppleTV does not have all these things and therefore it is somewhat crippled just as the Vudu is.

I'm sorry if you are put off by someone who is passionate about something. I've been using a Vudu now for almost a year - ever since my first prototype came in a little clear plexiglass box and when our first test movies consisted of about 100 titles no one would ever want to watch. I along with the other mods here helped shape and make this product into what it is today. So forgive me if I am passionate about something that I helped to create.

[Nded]

Re: Apple TV take 2: 100 hd titles today

For the record, Jon is an Apple fanatic and has been complaining about the problems with AppleTV for a long time - the V 2.0 software announcement has not done anything to change his tune. He'd be thrilled to see his AppleTV grow up to be what he wants, it's just not there yet.

I on the other hand am one of the folks that would never ever ever buy an Apple product - don't care for the company. With that said, I think my "observations" on the AppleTV 2.0 announcements have been even handed.

[Chopper]

Re: Apple TV take 2: 100 hd titles today

Uh - I own an AppleTV.

Oh yeah:

I OWN an AppleTV.

You may own an AppleTV, but you sure go out of your way to defend Vudu and put down Apple. Go back and read your first 5-10 posts in this very thread and then tell me again how partial you are.

I think its fair to say that EVERY POSTER ON THESE BOARDS wants Vudu to do well, and are hoping for good things soon.... because we all own Vudu Boxes!

Why do you and other folks have to take sides? Can't we just talk and compare competing products without having to defend one product of the other?

-----Now back on subject---------

Alot of points being brought up are the fact you can't buy HD content with AppleTV.

During the Apple Keynote, Steve went out of his way to say that he believes rentals are the way to go. And I have to agree.

How many of you actually watch a movie more than once?

A GREAT movie, what... 2-3-5 times?

You could rent a movie 4 times and still have less money invested in it that you would if you bought it for 20-30 dollars!

I have purchased over 1200 DVDs. All sitting down in my basement on Boltz racks.... collecting dust. I probably go down there once a month and grab a movie to watch. Now with Vudu... I don't go down at all.

I went from "I WANNA OWN THE MOVIE" to "DON'T BE STUPID! JUST RENT IT WHEN YOU WANNA WATCH IT AND SAVE YOUR MONEY!"

Anyway... I have seen the light. Buying physical media... and buying digital media...when it comes to movies at least... is silly. At least to me. I'm a rental guy from here on out!

[redwein]

Re: Apple TV take 2: 100 hd titles today

And, being self serving here, I don't really care if Apple does it first or Vudu....I just want more movies on Vudu that I want to watch. :-)

Now that I fully agree with.

[NA9D]

Re: Apple TV take 2: 100 hd titles today

Y
I guess it seems like you take any critics of Vudu or proponets of AppleTV as an attack on Vudu...not sure I see it that way.

Uh - I own an AppleTV.

I love how people make assumptions.

Look, I am simply stating the facts as they are today. I will state them again as you don't seem to be able to get them:

1.) Not all movies are rentable on Vudu or on AppleTV
2.) Movie rentals are delayed after the release on physical media on Vudu and AppleTV
3.) SD content on AppleTV is not in 5.1. Some Vudu SD content is in 5.1
4.) You will be able to purchase HD content on Vudu. You can't purchase HD content on AppleTV

What of these true facts will you dispute? Will this change in 6 months or a week? Maybe. We don't know.

All my statement says is that the critics of Vudu should apply the same attitude towards Apple. They have ripped Vudu for these issues to no end. Yet, the biggest name in digital media comes out with a product that has many of the same restrictions.

I love repeating myself...

Oh yeah:

I OWN an AppleTV.

[bspooky]

Re: Apple TV take 2: 100 hd titles today

The evidence is that there current licensing restrictions seem to match Vudu's pretty closely. That indicates to any reasonable person that Apple is not immune to them. It is certainly a better indication than the fact that they have been a successful company.

Look, it is possible that Apple may be able to muscle the door open. It's also possible that Vudu might benefit from that as well. It's just that there isn't any evidence yet that that will be the case. The current evidence is that they are both blocked by the same obstacle.

Whew! We agree!!!! :-)

I agree they MAY end up both blocked by the same obstacle.

I just also so happen to think they have a shot at muscling that door open though ... not because of blind faith but because of past history, movie biz ties, business savy, etc. etc. and think those reasons are just as good as indication as one similar restriction.

I would say by the end of summer we should hopefull know.

And, being self serving here, I don't really care if Apple does it first or Vudu....I just want more movies on Vudu that I want to watch. :-)

[redwein]

Re: Apple TV take 2: 100 hd titles today

Where is this evidence you refer to that Apple will have the same restrictions as Vudu when it comes to how many new release videos they will have access to?

The evidence is that there current licensing restrictions seem to match Vudu's pretty closely. That indicates to any reasonable person that Apple is not immune to them. It is certainly a better indication than the fact that they have been a successful company.

Look, it is possible that Apple may be able to muscle the door open. It's also possible that Vudu might benefit from that as well. It's just that there isn't any evidence yet that that will be the case. The current evidence is that they are both blocked by the same obstacle.

[bspooky]

Re: Apple TV take 2: 100 hd titles today

Your logic is flawed. What I mentioned is evidence. I never said it was "irrefutable proof". I simply said it was evidence. It is a fact that Apple will have the same restrictions as Vudu, at least for now. That fact, which can be examined, is clearly evidence. Apple's past performance is not. That is more like the qualification for mutual funds "past performance is no gaurantee of future performance". This is even more true given the real evidence of the current restrictions.

The blue car argument is just plain silly since there is plenty of evidence that not all cars a blue. It would be ridiculous to infer that all cars were blue based on something like that. However, it is a fact that studios have licensing restrictions. It is also a fact that Apple would have put out the best offering that they could have. Given they put out what they did. It is much more reasonable to infer that they are getting the same result as Vudu in dealing with the studio than it is to infer that all cars are blue because you saw 2 that were.

Where is this evidence you refer to that Apple will have the same restrictions as Vudu when it comes to how many new release videos they will have access to? Was there an announcement that Apple said "yeah we are only going to get xy of xyz new movies, just like Vudu gets now"??? Short of that the only evidence you have, that I have seen you refer to, is the 30 day 24 hour rental.

And that is all you have seen, they both have that. So, if you had a Martian standing next to you who had never seen a car, and the first was blue, and the second was blue, and that Martian said therefore in fact all cars are blue, you would correct that Martian and say no, you just haven't seen a non-blue car yet.

And you have not seen that Apple with have the exact same new movies rentals and percentage of new movie rentals as Vudu. Neither have I that they won't, but I won't claim that as a FACT. You indicate you didn't say "irrefutable proof" yet in a sentence later claim it as fact. Last time I checked in the english language saying some is a fact is pretty much saying irrefutable.

[HeadHodge]

Re: Apple TV take 2: 100 hd titles today

Some of the biggest complaints about Vudu:

- Not all movies are rentable
- Movies aren't rentable same day they are released
- Movies aren't all in DD5.1

Same thing with AppleTV. In fact, on AppleTV there are ZERO standard definition movies available in DD5.1. And FWIU, the audio bit rate on 5.1 content on AppleTV HD content is drastically lower than the bit rate on Vudu's 5.1 content.

You sure have hit all my hot buttons for what I want as a paying customer.

Can't compare quality of Vudu to ATV yet, because currently Apple has no content to offer (without iTunes)

[bspooky]

Re: Apple TV take 2: 100 hd titles today

Probably because I hadn't investigated it yet when I wrote that and I was speculating (dang - must people parse everything someone says!).

After investigating it with iTunes, I can unequivocally state that there is content on iTunes that is purchase only and there is content on iTunes that is rental only.

Some of the biggest complaints about Vudu:

- Not all movies are rentable
- Movies aren't rentable same day they are released
- Movies aren't all in DD5.1

Same thing with AppleTV. In fact, on AppleTV there are ZERO standard definition movies available in DD5.1. And FWIU, the audio bit rate on 5.1 content on AppleTV HD content is drastically lower than the bit rate on Vudu's 5.1 content.

Where are the cat calls and "this is a failed product" type pronouncements about AppleTV?

Yeah, I know what you meant about people parsing out everything you say (see my post refering to you doing this to me in the previosu post...my post you responded to was a tongue in cheek response back to you...my apologies for that lapse of imaturity).

I have never claimed Apple doesn't have for buy only. Don't they do some stuff where you have to buy the whole album to get a song? But both Vudu and Apple, to truly have a mass market appeal for VOD, need to have rentable movies, and near 100%, as soon as a video store would have them. Yes, that is my opinion, and I have no market research to back that statement up.

As far as Apple TV to be dead because of the lack of specs you mention, different wants go into products. Some people wouldnt' care about those specs (I am one of them, I still use a 25 inch tube TV). Some are going to like the portability of movies to IPODS (not me though).

I guess it seems like you take any critics of Vudu or proponets of AppleTV as an attack on Vudu...not sure I see it that way.

[redwein]

Re: Apple TV take 2: 100 hd titles today

Your "evidence", that apple has the same 30 day / 24 hour rental type agreement that Vudu does so is therefore are hitting the same blocks is much like saying you just saw a blue car, then a second blue car, therefore all cars are blue.

Your logic is flawed. What I mentioned is evidence. I never said it was "irrefutable proof". I simply said it was evidence. It is a fact that Apple will have the same restrictions as Vudu, at least for now. That fact, which can be examined, is clearly evidence. Apple's past performance is not. That is more like the qualification for mutual funds "past performance is no gaurantee of future performance". This is even more true given the real evidence of the current restrictions.

The blue car argument is just plain silly since there is plenty of evidence that not all cars a blue. It would be ridiculous to infer that all cars were blue based on something like that. However, it is a fact that studios have licensing restrictions. It is also a fact that Apple would have put out the best offering that they could have. Given they put out what they did. It is much more reasonable to infer that they are getting the same result as Vudu in dealing with the studio than it is to infer that all cars are blue because you saw 2 that were.