What is this?!

[redwein]

Re: What is this?!

Also, redwein, I'd maybe understand your point a bit better if one didn't have to pay to actually use the Vudu box. By paying for each movie rental and/or movie purchase, you're paying for the service, much like the Sirius monthly subscription fee...it's just on a per use basis instead of a set monthly fee...

Consider the cable company. You pay for the monthly service, the monthly box fee and you still have to pay for PPV. Otherwise it would just be V. Also, with the Sirius, I paid for the radio, just like Vudu and I pay per month instead of PPV. So if Vudu is wrong, then Sirius is too since I have to pay both of them to use their service after having paid for the box. It's just a different payment model. I'm sure the reason for it has to do with the way the movie studios get their royalties compared to the music distributors. I would bet the overall licensing between the 2 is very different.

[Glassjoe]

Re: What is this?!

I'm curious. Have you tried using the system yet, or are you leaving it in the box until you get a better answer?

It's still in the box. I know, I know...I should just try it out, right? I intend to, but I do have to snag a wireless adapter first...and to a much lesser degree, despite the fact that I also have a Tivo series 3 with DVD burner, slingbox, digital cable box, dvd player, I am horrible at figuring out how to connect everything...and I put off what I fear, I suppose...

[redwein]

Re: What is this?!

Just because companies in other industries don't give away free boxes, doesn't mean Vudu shouldn't. There is a widely accepted business principle that dictates that a company is best served if it can escape the red ocean of competition for a blue ocean of freedom from competition. If Vudu provided free boxes, they would virtually own the movie rental market. There would be no need for movie rental stores, save for those households without sufficient Internet connectivity.

I'm sure I could have 100% market share in automobiles if I gave them away for free and had a product that worked. You can't talk about the best way to run a business by only discussing half of the business model.

[Glassjoe]

Re: What is this?!

I'm sure I could have 100% market share in automobiles if I gave them away for free and had a product that worked. You can't talk about the best way to run a business by only discussing half of the business model.

C'mon, that would only apply to this discussion if you had to swipe your credit card in the automobile every time you wanted to use it...

[redwein]

Re: What is this?!

C'mon, that would only apply to this discussion if you had to swipe your credit card in the automobile every time you wanted to use it...

It's intended to show a point. You claimed that Vudu would be better off giving away free boxes because they would have 100% market share. You didn't even attempt to consider if that is the best way for them to survive as a company and return a profit. It's pretty easy to make suggestions like that when you have no responsibility to the investors, employees, etc.

[Nded]

Re: What is this?!

It's still in the box. I know, I know...I should just try it out, right? I intend to, but I do have to snag a wireless adapter first...and to a much lesser degree, despite the fact that I also have a Tivo series 3 with DVD burner, slingbox, digital cable box, dvd player, I am horrible at figuring out how to connect everything...and I put off what I fear, I suppose...

You might want to look at one of the slinglink ethernet over AC adapters. The 4-port model would let you put your slingbox on the same connection and would free up your wireless bandwidth for laptops and other mobile devices. Let us know if you need help getting it going.

[Glassjoe]

Re: What is this?!

It's intended to show a point. You claimed that Vudu would be better off giving away free boxes because they would have 100% market share. You didn't even attempt to consider if that is the best way for them to survive as a company and return a profit. It's pretty easy to make suggestions like that when you have no responsibility to the investors, employees, etc.

How about, then, for the sake of completeness, I draft an entire business model for Vudu and post it here? Would that be better?

My comment was more off the cuff than you are acknowledging...I was making a general comment that perhaps Vudu could make up the cost of production of free boxes in volume of increased business. Obviously, I have no idea what it costs Vudu to manufacture a box and I have no idea how much revenue Vudu makes per rental/purchase.

Again, I got off track with the one off the cuff comment. My goal is to determine if keeping the Vudu is "worth it" to me...and what better way to discover this, than to talk to the people who use/love it?

[redwein]

Re: What is this?!

How about, then, for the sake of completeness, I draft an entire business model for Vudu and post it here? Would that be better?

I wouldn't think so since you probably don't have as much knowledge of the relevant information that Vudu used to create theirs. I'd give them the benefit of the doubt given that they actually convinced people or VCs to put up money based on what they showed them.

[Glassjoe]

Re: What is this?!

I wouldn't think so since you probably don't have as much knowledge of the relevant information that Vudu used to create theirs. I'd give them the benefit of the doubt given that they actually convinced people or VCs to put up money based on what they showed them.

Touche'.

Then it's settled. I will not be posting a business plan for Vudu to follow.

In the end, I suspect nded is correct--I need to just hook up the dang thing and go from there.

[NA9D]

Re: What is this?!

In the end, I suspect nded is correct--I need to just hook up the dang thing and go from there.

Keep in mind - you have 30 days to try the box out and if you don't like it, send it back...



Let's put it this way, why should the cable company not give you your TV? You buy the TV. You then pay to watch on cable or satellite. Then you buy a DVD player. You then rent or buy DVDs. You buy a computer. Then you have to buy software for the computer. Not only that, every time a major upgrade comes out to a piece of software, you have to pay to upgrade.

But it would be good to see your idea for a business plan. You may have some really valid points...

[Glassjoe]

Re: What is this?!

Keep in mind - you have 30 days to try the box out and if you don't like it, send it back...



Let's put it this way, why should the cable company not give you your TV? You buy the TV. You then pay to watch on cable or satellite. Then you buy a DVD player. You then rent or buy DVDs. You buy a computer. Then you have to buy software for the computer. Not only that, every time a major upgrade comes out to a piece of software, you have to pay to upgrade.

But it would be good to see your idea for a business plan. You may have some really valid points...

Well, I've really thought about the points you guys have made. This might come off as lame, but in addition to your good points, I was overlooking one giant point--if I take the thing back, it might hurt my wife's feelings--and that's worth way more than $400.

Anyway, I want to love technology, so maybe this is the vehicle I need to reconcile the Vudu expense in my mind.

But, because I am Italian and don't easily let things go , I must point out that your "the cable companies don't provide the tv" argument would only be valid if there were other outfits that provide a similar service as the cable companies, but did provide the tv. If Vudu = the cable company in this scenario, then Rental stores/netflix would have to equal a satellite provider that does provide the tv...the whole point in arguing that the Vudu box should be free is because they are in direct competition with other providers that have no cost of entry to purchase their service...

Anyway, carry on.

[redwein]

Re: What is this?!

the whole point in arguing that the Vudu box should be free is because they are in direct competition with other providers that have no cost of entry to purchase their service...

That's where I disagree. Which service are you talking about that has no cost of entry? It isn't the cable companies, you have to pay to rent a box every month and pay your subscription fee and still pay for PPV? With the Tivo/Amazon solution , which is the closest thing to direct competition, you have to buy the Tivo box and then pay a monthly subscription fee and then pay for the movies. It seems there is some cost to everything, regardless of whether or not they make you "buy" the box.

[Glassjoe]

Re: What is this?!

That's where I disagree. Which service are you talking about that has no cost of entry? It isn't the cable companies, you have to pay to rent a box every month and pay your subscription fee and still pay for PPV? With the Tivo/Amazon solution , which is the closest thing to direct competition, you have to buy the Tivo box and then pay a monthly subscription fee and then pay for the movies. It seems there is some cost to everything, regardless of whether or not they make you "buy" the box.

Specifically, I am referring to movie rental shops and netflix. I suppose you could argue that the "cost" of service (over and above the actual rental fees) is that you have to either 1) physically go to the rental store or 2) wait until your order arrives in the mail.

It starts to get a little fuzzy when including intangible "costs," but I suppose they are real barriers to using the service of the store/netflix.

[redwein]

Re: What is this?!

Specifically, I am referring to movie rental shops and netflix. I suppose you could argue that the "cost" of service (over and above the actual rental fees) is that you have to either 1) physically go to the rental store or 2) wait until your order arrives in the mail.

It starts to get a little fuzzy when including intangible "costs," but I suppose they are real barriers to using the service of the store/netflix.

Well, if you want to watch HD DVD or BluRay from Blockbuster or Netflix, you have to go out and buy a new player. I believe they aren't cheap. Plus, you are getting VOD with instant play with Vudu. That is an entirely different product/service than rental shops. Even though Netflix offers something similar, it is on the computer only, so you have to have one of those and go through more hoops to get it on your TV.

I think the mistake you are making is in what you consider direct competition. Blockbuster and Netflix aren't directly comparable as competitors. That's not to say they don't compete, just not directly in the services that they offer.

[dvcii]

Re: What is this?!

I've got money to blow.

But I really worry about the long-term prospects. Everyone I've mentioned vudu to sees it as way overpriced. Even moreso now that HD players are coming down so much in price.

I have about two weeks left in my 30 day return window, and I'm still wrestling with what to do. I think the quote above sums up the core issue. Availability of a large HD library would really differentiate Vudu from all of these other issues discussed here and improve the price/value proposition.

One thing that puzzles me is that neither Best Buy nor Circuit City carry Vudu-- even via limited online sale. I'd be surprised if Vudu can establish a large enough user base for the studios to take them seriously without wide retail distribution. If Vudu has tried and failed to sell in to these big box retailers, that would be a very bad sign.

If Vudu is confident in their offering, they would benefit by giving consumers an opportunity to interact with the product in the retail environment. At least people tossing out $400 for a Blu Ray would have an alternative to consider.

In the end, Vudu is at the mercy of the studios, and the studios will pay attention with Vudu has a sizable user base. I'm not sure this can happen with Vudu's current pricing and distribution model. I'll likely stick with my $400 Vudu investment for the fun of it-- not sure there's enough people like me out there to make this work.