Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

[tamanaco]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

I can pretty much tell you that from what I know the smart card is tied directly to the encryption key for the box.

I understand perfectly what the technology is capable of. I'm not arguing about that. But we could sit and discuss "shoulds" all day long and it makes not one bit of difference because the way things "should" be is not reality but fantasy. I repeat again: I am not aware of a single smart card device on the market that lets me take and move that card to a different device and get content there. It doesn't happen.

Clients talking about the "shoulds" is what makes companies improved their products. If everything is fine and dandy with the Vudu box then why are we discussing issues in this forums?... "Should" it have an external hard drive? "Should" Vudu allow for longer grace period for rental? "Should" Vudu or the Vudu box do this or that... Not so long ago there were threads about "Should" Vudu make HD and HDX content available for purchase? Without any "shoulds" I hardly feel that there is a need for this forum.

You're hung on the smartcard (The device)... it could be a key for all I care. I'm talking about a portable "token" to allow non-repudiation. If you leave the States you'll find that cell phones, smartcards and USB drives are being used for non-repudiation for the delivery of goods. In Japan you can call a vending machine from an authorized cell phone enter your password and get a soda. Content delivered non-repudiation fulfilled. It's not about the smartcard or encryption is about ensuring the identity of the user to whom you are delivering goods or services via a mobile token.

All I'm looking for is convenience and flexibility from the Vudu box. Heck, I probably won't be purchasing any titles at any resolution, but I'd like this service (Vudu feature) to be successful... Why?... Because it'll bring more users and more revenue to Vudu. If that happens then the Vudu service will grown and software will continue to improve and "all" of us will benefit from it. "Should" Vudu make every effort to allow video that users purchased to play anywhere and in multiple devices?. I think the answer is that if they don't a competitor soon will.

[NA9D]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

The prices you pay for movies varies widely depending on where you go. I went to a Barnes and Noble last weekend to buy a copy of Prince Caspian since I had a gift card. The standard edition of the DVD (NOT BlueRay) was $29.99 and the collector's 3 disk edition w/digital copy was $39.99. I was shocked. I got a 10% discount but that's it. Amazon had the same stuff for a lot less. The only reason I bought it where I did was b/c of the gift card.

So Vudu's prices aren't that out of line. Some are a little more others a little less.

It's all about impulse and convenience...

FYI: I still prefer to own physical copies of content that I buy...

[redwein]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

Still, charging $6 MORE for a VUDU only copy of a film vs. a Bluray disk is a non-starter for 99.9% of the population.=

You may be right there (perhaps not the 99.9% part but for many). But that still leaves the rental market for Vudu to clean up in. I envision VOD making rental the default way that movies are viewed with personal ownership of the content playing a declining roll in the future. So, if you are still on the ownership train, you can enjoy Vudu for rental only, purchase some on Vudu if you like, or buy Bluray for your purchases. Any of those scenarios is valid. If, as I predict, the desire to own content declines, Vudu's share of the overall movie market would go up.

As an example of why I believe this is possible, I now own over 700 DVDs and my overall average number of times I have watched each is way less than 1, maybe even .4 or so. I (actually my wife) bought most of them so that we would have them around if we were ever in the mood to watch them. Many of them still had their shrink wrap on when I ripped them to my NAS and we have still never watched them. Now that we have Vudu, we haven't bought any DVDs or Blurays and we are watching and enjoying more movies than ever. The few we have bought are mostly because they weren't offered for rental, not because we wanted to own them.

If every movie is available for on-demand rental (I agree we aren't there yet), then I would argue that most people will save money by paying the rental fee for each and every movie they watch, rather than by trying to guess which ones they will watch enough times to justify ownership. Plus, you don't have to worry about things like new HD formats. When you think about it, my 700 DVDs would be kind of obsolete if I can now rent them in HD (many of them I can). So I still end up renting things that I already own because of that.

[redwein]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

Apparently, you did not visit the Dun & Bradstreet link I provided where hundreds of private companies do make their financial information available to the general public.

I don't know how you go from hundreds to most. I believe that hundreds do and "most" do not.

[NA9D]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

Mine can go back and forth between units. And, in fact, I still have someone else's premium movie lineup on one card. Perhaps my cable-co/franchise isn't as locked down.

Dang. Wish my cable cards could do that. Maybe your cableco knows how to actually support them! I can pull my cards in and out but not put them in other devices. The device's host ID is tied to the card.

Regarding the talk about releasing financials, status, and what not. The companies that do so often prefer they didn't have to when the going's tough. However, publicly traded companies must disclose certain data. As far as Vudu goes, they are a private company and not required to share that data. Why would they? What benefit would it serve? The only folks who need to know are the investors, board, and potential suitors. Unless the info were outstanding, in which case it might be good for some press and reassuring customers or potential customers. Back in Nov or Dec I heard that they were in a serious world of hurt financially. Could be mere rumor, could be misinterpreted. Who knows. The fact is, with any start up, we as consumers are rolling the dice. Although we may not all realize it. (I say this as a guy who has tossed useless Moviebeam, Akimbo, ITVN units.)

Exactly. I don't know where Vudu's financial situation is. I've heard your rumor and I've heard the opposite out there as well. It's all interpretation and one person's interpretation is different than another's. Some see Vudu's price lowering as a desperate act. Others see it as a natural maturation of the business.

The WORST thing anyone can stop doing is renting or purchasing Videos on their Vudu or not buy one if thinking about it. I think sales have been relatively healthy given the bad economy because I've seen a lot of new owners and users pop up here in the last few months. It's very encouraging.

[davezatz]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

I can't even remove my cable card from my Tivo and reinsert it without having to call the cable company and re-pair the card. In that process, I have to identify myself as the account owner by giving the last 4 of my social. I know this because I tried it as an "experiment" once.

Mine can go back and forth between units. And, in fact, I still have someone else's premium movie lineup on one card. Perhaps my cable-co/franchise isn't as locked down.

----

Regarding the talk about releasing financials, status, and what not. The companies that do so often prefer they didn't have to when the going's tough. However, publicly traded companies must disclose certain data. As far as Vudu goes, they are a private company and not required to share that data. Why would they? What benefit would it serve? The only folks who need to know are the investors, board, and potential suitors. Unless the info were outstanding, in which case it might be good for some press and reassuring customers or potential customers. Back in Nov or Dec I heard that they were in a serious world of hurt financially. Could be mere rumor, could be misinterpreted. Who knows. The fact is, with any start up, we as consumers are rolling the dice. Although we may not all realize it. (I say this as a guy who has tossed worthless Moviebeam, Akimbo, and ITVN units.)

[NA9D]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

If Vudu is unethical in their business model by not posting financials and if the product I buy today is useless tomorrow, it's not similar to a lot of things I hav purchased:

I have (or did have) some Sony Betamax tapes. But my Betamax player died a long time ago (actually I never had one - I got those tapes in college when a roommate had them). My investment in Betamax tapes was lost as I had to ditch my movies.

Let's see. Roku stopped making the Photobridge media player and didn't fix all the bugs in the software. Should I demand Roku (who doesn't release sales figures) apologize?

ReplayTV made DVRs. Today, they are somewhat useless for people who don't have cable as they are analog only. Was D&M Holdings unethical?

Hitachi promoted the HD-DVD format. Today it's gone. Was it unethical to promote that format knowing they might lose? All the people who purchased HD-DVD players, now have a fairly useless piece of equipment that they can get no new movies for. Was Hitachi and all those who backed that format unethical?

Finally, let me set the record straight on if I am a moderator here. I'm not. You must have me confused here with some other forums I am on. I AM a moderator at SlingCommunity.com. I am a moderator at PlanetVudu.com and at PlanetReplay.com. I am a regular forum member at Forum.vudu.com. You must have your sites mixed up or something....

[MaxH]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

"No moderators have posted in this thread..."

That's not true. Check the thread. NA9D, as well as senior members and so called evangelists have commented. It saddens me that fairness and transparency seem to be inconvenient topics here. But at least I have my answer. I hope that VUDU's management reads this and has a more customer friendly take on this issue.

What made you think NA9D is a moderator? He isn't.

[RonV]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

"No moderators have posted in this thread..."

That's not true. Check the thread. NA9D, as well as senior members and so called evangelists have commented. It saddens me that fairness and transparency seem to be inconvenient topics here. But at least I have my answer. I hope that VUDU's management reads this and has a more customer friendly take on this issue.

illuscon,

Max is correct...none of the senior members here are moderators...this status is based on having a number of posts on the board...moderators have a tag line of "Moderator" or something like that. VUDU Employees are directly spelled out in their tag lines also.

As for being the VUDU Evangelist, I am just that. I am not a employee of VUDU...I just love the product and what it gives to me and my family as a consumer.

I think you points have been made is clear:

• don't like the idea of purchasing content and then having to store it on VUDU's network
• don't really own it if you can't use in on different devices.

Many of the other folks here have different opinions that were also expressed here so lets leave it at that...we all agree to have our own opinions and spend our dollars as we are free to do and take all the risks associated with our free will.

[illuscon]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

"No moderators have posted in this thread..."

That's not true. Check the thread. NA9D, as well as senior members and so called evangelists have commented. It saddens me that fairness and transparency seem to be inconvenient topics here. But at least I have my answer. I hope that VUDU's management reads this and has a more customer friendly take on this issue.

[MaxH]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

So I believe VUDU owes users and potential customers a level of openness so they can consider for themselves whether or not to purchase HDX/STD films that can only be played on their hardware and archived on VUDU systems.

You can believe whatever you want, but their current customers must either disagree or feel that the benefit outweighs the risk. If Vudu is worried about missing out on people with your point of view as potential users, then they certainly should do as you say. I do hope for their sake that their marketing department has at least done a risk/benefit analysis of releasing that information.

I am sensing that the moderators feel somewhat painted in a corner on this topic. That would be unfortunate. The use of irrelevant arguments to void a simple premise of fairness might be sending a bad message to the users following this thread. More astute users may have gleaned the information they need to make a decision by reading between moderators' lines.

No moderators have posted in this thread, just happy Vudu users, which may be why you are having trouble finding others who agree with you. I'm sure you could find people to agree with you somewhere, but most members here came here because they bought a Vudu, which assumes a higher level of trust or faith in the company than you.

[illuscon]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

And most do not. Are they all "unethical" asking their customers to buy whatever product or service they are selling without giving them a rundown of their business operations? Heck, even some public companies, like Chrylser, should stop selling cars because it is clearly evident that they might not be in business for even the length of the warranty. In both public and private companies, it is up to the customer to determine if the cost/value/risk equation makes sense. When you run a company, you can do as you please. If you are funded by any sort of VC, they may discourage or limit you from releasing such information.

Apparently, you did not visit the Dun & Bradstreet link I provided where hundreds of private companies do make their financial information available to the general public. VUDU makes no information public except CFO happy talk quips.

As to your Chrylser non-point, everyone is well aware of the Big 3 car companies troubles. They have been discussed in great detail in the press and on their balance sheets. So the customer is well informed when considering the purchase of their products. Not so with VUDU. With VUDU, it is literally a crap shoot as to whether or not they will be around in six months or even 90 days. There is literally no transparency with regard to the company's health. So I believe VUDU owes users and potential customers a level of openness so they can consider for themselves whether or not to purchase HDX/STD films that can only be played on their hardware and archived on VUDU systems.

I am sensing that the moderators feel somewhat painted in a corner on this topic. That would be unfortunate. The use of irrelevant arguments to void a simple premise of fairness might be sending a bad message to the users following this thread. More astute users may have gleaned the information they need to make a decision by reading between moderators' lines.

[deparson]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

You have a good point about the value of delivering the media in electronic format fro the start; I was not thinking about the cost of the drive space and equipment and time to copy DVDs, etc and make them available to a TV. It is not a small cost and VUDU gets around that from the start.

I don't have a STB for playing video from a HD but I am thinking about something like Popcorn Hour which would be ~~$350 for the box and a 1.5TB HD. Not sure yet. I would love it if VUDU could take on that role with, perhaps, a $100 1.5TB USB drive pluged in to it. That would really increase its value but is likely not part of VUDU's business model.

Still, charging $6 MORE for a VUDU only copy of a film vs. a Bluray disk is a non-starter for 99.9% of the population.

(I do love VUDU though!)

I agree with a lot of what you say. However, I would disagree a bit on this part. I don't think you can really equate the "amount" you are getting between the 2. While it is true you don't get the physical disk, etc., I can personally say that having a movie collection comprised of physical disks became almost completely useless to me due to the inability to store them in an organized fashion, know what I had, find it when I needed, etc. Then, I bought a s&&tload of equipment and spent $1000s trying to bring the value back to being something useful again by creating my own homegrown VOD solution. Continuing to do that would have cost me a lot of time and money (way more than buying it on Vudu).

So in effect, assuming that I can rent what I want to watch, when I want to watch it, and buy the movies that it makes sense for me to own and archive them on the cloud, I am getting much more with Vudu and paying much less. Sometimes you have to look at the differences between the things more completely to determine their real cost vs. value.

[redwein]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

There are actually many private companies that release sales figures. An extensive directory of private companies can be found at Hoovers, a Dun & Bradstreet company.

And most do not. Are they all "unethical" asking their customers to buy whatever product or service they are selling without giving them a rundown of their business operations? Heck, even some public companies, like Chrylser, should stop selling cars because it is clearly evident that they might not be in business for even the length of the warranty. In both public and private companies, it is up to the customer to determine if the cost/value/risk equation makes sense. When you run a company, you can do as you please. If you are funded by any sort of VC, they may discourage or limit you from releasing such information.

[redwein]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

So yes, it is a reasonable question to ask; is it ethical for VUDU to encourage users to purchase films, knowing the only way to watch these films is on a VUDU box and the only way archive these films is on their "cloud". If VUDU goes under, these purchased films are no longer available to the user. In some cases, that could be a significant amount of money lost. I do believe that under VUDU's current business model, with no other way to recoup these purchased films, VUDU owes their user base a blunt and detailed "state of the business" discussion. Especially, in light of current business climate a company should not be perceived as hiding information from their customers.

It clearly bothers you so don't spend any money on it. As far as Vudu running the company, I'll let them and their investors figure out the best way to succeed. They have much more of a vested interest in it than you do.

And no, Vudu does not "owe" you anything. They "owe" their investors the best opportunity to recoup and grow their investment. They provide a product and service to their customers at a price and with certain risks (just like any other company). If you don't like it, go buy it elsewhere. Or you could choose to only rent, then you won't have any possibility of getting "ripped off" and you can still get a great deal of value out of the Vudu. The choice is yours.

If, at some point, they become a public company, then the would "owe" you the information you request. Claiming that it's bad news just because they don't inform you of their quarterly sales is ridiculous. By that logic, I believe I could say you are all kinds of things because you have failed to prove to me that you aren't. Logic clearly differentiates between "absence of knowledge" and "knowledge of absence" types of scenarios.