Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

[NA9D]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

The smart card should provide the "non-repudiation" component to allow users to use "their" content wherever they want.

- snip -

Heck, now that I know that Vudu is a software company and not a hardware company in the future they should develop software players to allow the content bought via Vudu to play in any device.

1.) I don't know why you think Vudu is now just a software company. That's not what I would characterize as accurate. Just because they want to license the software to other companies' hardware does not mean that they will stop making hardware.

2.) NO smart card in the world allows you to take that smart card and put it in someone else's box and view content. The D* or E* boxes do not do it, Vudu does not do it, no one's. Maybe that was the original idea, but everyone ended up tying the smart card to the box. The smart card is integral to the encryption key. But since it is tied to the box, it has to be used with that box.

[tamanaco]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

tamanaco,

You missed my comment where I said:

To the extent of how the smart card is involved is proprietary to VUDU.

So it could be a combination of the hardware and the card like DirectTV does with their content or other combination.

I understand your desire to have portable content, I too would like to bring my media with me like I do with my music, but at this time that option is not avaiable with VUDU.

I see... I guess the "possibility" still exist. Non-repudiation, which is one of the stumbling blocks for playing copyrighted material anywhere is easily facilitated with a "physical" smartcard. Let's hope the software architects at Vudu took this into account before they engineered the Vudu box.

Edit: "To the extent of how the smart card is involved is proprietary to VUDU." should have been the first sentence.

[RonV]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

tamanaco,

You missed my comment where I said:

To the extent of how the smart card is involved is proprietary to VUDU.

So it could be a combination of the hardware and the card like DirectTV does with their content or other combination.

I understand your desire to have portable content, I too would like to bring my media with me like I do with my music, but at this time that option is not avaiable with VUDU.

[tamanaco]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

Content is tied to the VUDU box. I have in the past downloaded a bunch of movies to take on vacation and played them just fine without being connected to the internet. To the extent of how the smart card is involved is proprietary to VUDU.

One would assume under the current VUDU model that purchased content that is stored externally would only be playable on the VUDU that made the purchase.

So you're absolutely certain that "all" the downloaded content security is tied to the hardware (Vudu box) and in no way tied to the smart card?. That's a bit disappointing. But then why have a smart card reader in the box? Is it just for rental identification purposes? I'm not concerned about playing connected or disconnected. I just want the ability to play the content that I "own" either in another Vudu box (for portability convenience using just the card) or in another device with said card. For example... if decide to store my content in the Vudu cloud then I want to go to my sister's house with "my card" and play the movie I stored in my account (cloud) in "her" Vudu box. Having the encryption and "authentication" completely performed by the box is a bad model for a "software" company. The smart card should provide the "non-repudiation" component to allow users to use "their" content wherever they want. Oh well, some one will come along and solve this issue about playing content that the user owns in the device and place of the user's choice without breaking any copyright laws. The problem that I have is that "all" the technology to accomplish this "might be" already available in the Vudu box.

Heck, now that I know that Vudu is a software company and not a hardware company in the future they should develop software players to allow the content bought via Vudu to play in any device. Using say a mobile player for smartphones which can allow one to play "mobile" friendly content bought via Vudu. Of course, you would also need to get a "certificate" tied to your Vudu account that would allow the player to authenticate the user. But I guess I'm just Vudu dreaming... as in Zombie.

[RonV]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

Btw, I'm "assuming" that in order to play copyrighted content in the Vudu box the authorization is tied to the smart card in the box. If this is the case, then allowing users to take this smart card and their external drive/content with them to a friend/family house with a Vudu box and play the "purchased" content should be possible. Taking this model further, any computer with a compatible smart reader and player should also be allow to play the "purchased" content. A "flexible" model where one can play the videos one owns wherever and whenever one wants might compel more users to "purchase" more videos via Vudu.

Content is tied to the VUDU box. I have in the past downloaded a bunch of movies to take on vacation and played them just fine without being connected to the internet. To the extent of how the smart card is involved is proprietary to VUDU.

One would assume under the current VUDU model that purchased content that is stored externally would only be playable on the VUDU that made the purchase.

[tamanaco]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

Given that Vudu is now moving to allow users to "buy" high resolution content; having the ability to store that purchased content locally becomes critical. Vudu is adding/enhancing a "purchase model" to target those folks for whom owning the content is important. (I know this is not everyone) Having high resolution content that one owns in the cloud is not convenient as the wait time (based on your bandwidth) might be excessive (a few hours for HDX). If you have guests visiting for a few hours, with whom you want to share an HDX movie the download time becomes a big inconvenience. Specially if the guest arrives either unannounced or with very short notice. To view high resolution content that one "owns" the viewing experience should allow spontaneous and instant availability. Now-a-days, one can get a 1TB USB 2.0 drive for under $100, so the cost of storage should not be the show-stopper. Vudu has to enable external "local" storage either via the USB port or using some plugin for Vudu labs to access content downloaded from Vudu stored in a "local" server via the LAN. To avoid any copyright issues content should only play in the Vudu box or boxes that the content buyer has registered with Vudu.

Btw, I'm "assuming" that in order to play copyrighted content in the Vudu box the authorization is tied to the smart card in the box. If this is the case, then allowing users to take this smart card and their external drive/content with them to a friend/family house with a Vudu box and play the "purchased" content should be possible. Taking this model further, any computer with a compatible smart reader and player should also be allow to play the "purchased" content. A "flexible" model where one can play the videos one owns wherever and whenever one wants might compel more users to "purchase" more videos via Vudu.

[NA9D]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

Dramatic price drops... VUDU refuses to release sales numbers so I am not inclined to purchase movies from them and only to find out one day it's all gone.

First of all, price drops are part of a normal product evolution and life cycle. I paid something like $350 for my first DVD player. They can be had now for $75.

IMHO, the current price of $150 for the Vudu is around where I think it should have been priced all along. It's at a price where people will buy it.

Also, if you purchase a movie and leave it on your box, then you will be able to keep it forever if Vudu goes under (or as long as your hard drive stays working). I'm sure that if you had it archived to the cloud, you'd have the chance to get them back before they pull the plug.

As for their chances of success - we'll see. The current economic environment doesn't help one bit. But I think the price point is right and I also think that in tough times people tend to buy products that allow them to get their entertainment at home.

Also, most private companies never release sales figures to the public. Public companies only do that because they are required to by law.

[redwein]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

It does not make sense to archive on the "cloud" unless VUDU begins to demonstrate that they can weather this economic storm. As I said, I'm not convinced VUDU will. In fact, they have done nothing to prove that they can survive in their current form. Layoffs. Dramatic price drops... VUDU refuses to release sales numbers so I am not inclined to purchase movies from them and only to find out one day it's all gone.

That's the 800 pound gorilla in the room and users should really demand more information about the state of VUDU's health before users invest anymore hard earned dollars.

I understand what you are saying but it's the optimal solution for me. I prefer to rent almost 100% of the time. For the few times that I purchase (if I'm out of room on the box), putting it in the cloud is fine. If they go under (which I clearly hope they don't), of course I will lose them, but I don't plan to have that many movies out there and I don't have to buy any additional hardware.

Of course if you are trying to build a movie collection that way, I would agree completely. However, I think that it makes little sense to do that in the world of VOD. You would have to keep adding hardware and deal with the costs associated with doing that (as I said, I spent a lot already on my own VOD solution). I'm content to just pay the rental fee each and every time I watch a movie. Had I been able to do that with a VOD system from the beginning, I would have saved a ton of money and not wasted so much time. So for me, I would have paid much less and got more.

[illuscon]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

It does not make sense to archive on the "cloud" unless VUDU begins to demonstrate that they can weather this economic storm. As I said, I'm not convinced VUDU will. In fact, they have done nothing to prove that they can survive in their current form. Layoffs. Dramatic price drops... VUDU refuses to release sales numbers so I am not inclined to purchase movies from them and only to find out one day it's all gone.

That's the 800 pound gorilla in the room and users should really demand more information about the state of VUDU's health before users invest anymore hard earned dollars.

[redwein]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

I love our VUDU and the ease of use and quality of the videos but few people will pay more for 'less'.

I agree with a lot of what you say. However, I would disagree a bit on this part. I don't think you can really equate the "amount" you are getting between the 2. While it is true you don't get the physical disk, etc., I can personally say that having a movie collection comprised of physical disks became almost completely useless to me due to the inability to store them in an organized fashion, know what I had, find it when I needed, etc. Then, I bought a s&&tload of equipment and spent $1000s trying to bring the value back to being something useful again by creating my own homegrown VOD solution. Continuing to do that would have cost me a lot of time and money (way more than buying it on Vudu).

So in effect, assuming that I can rent what I want to watch, when I want to watch it, and buy the movies that it makes sense for me to own and archive them on the cloud, I am getting much more with Vudu and paying much less. Sometimes you have to look at the differences between the things more completely to determine their real cost vs. value.

[deparson]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

This is a great example of what is wrong with VOD today. You can't price a restricted electronic version of a movie for the same price as the unrestricted* physical copy PLUS the cost of renting said movie and expect to sell movies.

VOD/electronic only distribution needs to reflect the reduced cost of manf. and distribution. While the marginal cost of 1 more blu-ray disk is low you have to inlcude the cost of capital for the manf. plants, cost to ship, import, distribute, wholesale, stock, and retail each disk. That is not a small cost relative to the other costs involved and far excedds the cost of electronic dist. via VUDU or similar. And, the consumer has 'less' in most cases since they can't sell, trade, loan, or give away a VUDU movie like they can a DVD.

I love our VUDU and the ease of use and quality of the videos but few people will pay more for 'less'. I don't pretend that this is all VUDU issue; the content owners are likely as much or more to blaim but either way everyone ends up getting short changed in the long run. Fewer people will buy via VUDU and others, the content owners will get less $s, and content piracy will continue to go up and up.

My $.02

*I understand that DVDs are encrypted and you are not intended to copy them. I also understand the reality of how DVDs are often used.

The age of waiting days on end for a disc to show up in the mail from amazon is long over for me, but I agree with the lower overhead on sales via Vudu (i.e. zero production costs) the prices should ideally be lower than even the discounted amazon retail price. For the record Transsiberian (HDX) is $18.99 on Vudu. List price for the blu-ray is $34.98.

[NA9D]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

I'm a little confused. You can buy HDX movies but there's STILL no approved external archival device? Considering the economy and VUDU's tenuous financial state "cloud" archival is little more than a lick and a promise. If I invest in an HDX film I want to make sure that investment is available to me with or without VUDU. If not, why buy it from VUDU when I can purchase a Blu-ray disc and be assured the film will be there for me years from now?

I think Apple & ATV can weather this economic storm. I'm not convinced VUDU will. Sorry, this news is not very impressive.

Well, the 2.1.1 (or is it 2.1.2?) firmware build which is what is released now does not have any form of external storage support. I would hope that with this new announcement that the next build (which I'd assume to be 2.2) would have some sort of external storage capability. Unfortunately, we have no idea on if this feature is actually included or for that matter when 2.2 will be released. If Vudu holds true to form though it should be pretty soon as major releases tend to come out every 8 to 10 weeks and it's nearly been that long.

[illuscon]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

I'm a little confused. You can buy HDX movies but there's STILL no approved external archival device? Considering the economy and VUDU's tenuous financial state "cloud" archival is little more than a lick and a promise. If I invest in an HDX film I want to make sure that investment is available to me with or without VUDU. If not, why buy it from VUDU when I can purchase a Blu-ray disc and be assured the film will be there for me years from now?

I think Apple & ATV can weather this economic storm. I'm not convinced VUDU will. Sorry, this news is not very impressive.

[Citizen Erased]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

Vudu's costs for providing a movie aren't zero. They have to pay license fees and do work to transcode the movie, continually develop software to improve the experience, etc. By contrast, the physical cost of creating a DVD is a few pennies.

I know, I should have said 'zero manufacturing costs'. The cost of encoding is a production cost yes, but my understanding is Vudu takes that hit. And there is a margin for Vudu on the sale of course but then there is a margin for Amazon on the sale of the disc too.

There are savings made by using the internet as a delivery model versus optical discs shipped to store. I'm sure as the business models evolve we will see more of these savings passed on to the end customer.

Anyway congrat's to all at Vudu for what I think is a very under appreciated milestone in the industry.

[redwein]

Re: Vudu makes Yahoo Headlines on HD Purchases

The age of waiting days on end for a disc to show up in the mail from amazon is long over for me, but I agree with the lower overhead on sales via Vudu (i.e. zero production costs) the prices should ideally be lower than even the discounted amazon retail price. For the record Transsiberian (HDX) is $18.99 on Vudu. List price for the blu-ray is $34.98.

Vudu's costs for providing a movie aren't zero. They have to pay license fees and do work to transcode the movie, continually develop software to improve the experience, etc. By contrast, the physical cost of creating a DVD is a few pennies. You really can't consider the physical cost of providing one copy of a movie as any significant part of what is charged, so it shouldn't make any real difference one way or the other. It's all about the revenue to the artists and studios.